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Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

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Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#221
post #218
post #94

Nothing has changed since Jerry Pournelle wrote 35 years ago when discussing online forums: >I noticed something: most of the irritation came from a handful of people, sometimes only one or two. If I could only ignore them, the computer conferences were still valuable. Alas, it's not always easy to do. This is what killed Usenet,[1] which 40 years ago offered much of the virtues of Reddit in decentralized form. The n…

> This is what killed Usenet, Nah. If you've actually have used the (non-binary) Usenet, you have certainly come across plonks [1] and killfiles. And how do I wish for a killfile for web discussion forums... > This, not spam, is what has mostly killed Usenet. What killed Usenet is that the shiny new WWW was more attractive for new users (and easier to use than a newsreader). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plonk_%2…

>Nah. If you've actually have used the (non-binary) Usenet, you have certainly come across plonks [1] and killfiles.

As I said in my initial comment, I am well aware of killfiling (And why are you distinguishing between "plonks" and killfiles? At most, a plonk is a public announcement of putting someone in one's killfile.)—i.e., client-side anti-spam/anti-bad behavior tools—and server-side tools for similar purpose.

>What killed Usenet is that the shiny new WWW was more attractive for new users (and easier to use than a newsreader).

I don't disagree that WWW is more attractive and easier to use than Usenet; the resulting flood of individual forums of course seriously affected Usenet traffic. (In turn Twitter, Facebook, and especially Reddit have mostly killed off the individual forums.)

I nonetheless believe that misbehavior—quite possibly because of mental illness—and not spam is the major problem for Usenet today. Spam is, while still a problem, something both familiar and impersonal. But when entire newsgroups are taken up by mentally deranged individuals fighting their imagined grievances against others, participating in on-topic discussion is that much more difficult, and because said individuals often change their From: lines on the fly killfiling them is all the more difficult as well.

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#222
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of trans people have depression or anxiety disorders. Not personality disorders.[1] [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...

I remember reading they are more likely on autistic spectrum. But that is not personalolity disorder either.

Right. Autism is classified a developmental disorder. Mental illness means a psychological disorder usually.

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a person with mental illness in a community of people with mental illness and routinely talking about this all day long every day

It could be that the people who have the type of mental illnesses that are associated with fear of social persecution/rejection are the kind that seek a community of people with a similar affliction, while those with anti-social mental illnesses, like sociopathy, do not.

It could be that the people who don't understand mental illness characterize it in harmful ways and people with mental illness who associate together are readily familiar with that.

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of a reason, in two parts: lots of people are motivated by things other than mental health to behave negatively online; most people with mental illness are already afraid of being blamed and targeted.

Certainly not every, perhaps not even most, people with mental health issues spew venom online. However, a disproportionate amount of the invective which I hear when walking downtown in a city, comes from people with obvious mental health issues. There may be many others who are silently struggling with mental health issues who walk by me on the sidewalk, but even a few people who are very much not silent can numeric…

So I had a whole bunch of questions but I couldn’t get around this one: why is the choice for people with mental illness invective or struggling in silence? Don’t you realize that’s incentivizing invective?

What do you want us to do, just die and be a “curious” story you read about after the fact?

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#225

This is a old pre internet argument - Are serial killers mentally ill? Are people who are temporarily changed like black out drunk of a fit of rage responsible for their actions, like drink driving and murder? Should homosexuality in the 50's been classed as mentally ill considering it could ruin you life and even get you killed. But now it's gone fro Macro to Micro. I know at an IQ level believing Pizzagate is as du…

> believing Pizzagate is as dumb as thinking unarmed people in a Capitol is an insurrection.

There was zero evidence and zero existence of ANYTHING to substantiate "Pizzagate" while there was certainly some percentage of those "unarmed people" at the Capitol there to overthrow the election results.

I hope you realize how your efforts to "both sides" really distort both your message and reality.

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be that the people who have the type of mental illnesses that are associated with fear of social persecution/rejection are the kind that seek a community of people with a similar affliction, while those with anti-social mental illnesses, like sociopathy, do not.

It could be that the people who don't understand mental illness characterize it in harmful ways and people with mental illness who associate together are readily familiar with that.

How do you know I don't mental illness? And how was the way I characterized it harmful?

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be that the people who don't understand mental illness characterize it in harmful ways and people with mental illness who associate together are readily familiar with that.

How do you know I don't mental illness? And how was the way I characterized it harmful?

I didn’t say either of those things. But in the interest of being candid, I think it’s harmful to categorize mental illness as socially bad versus socially good. My ADHD and Autism are both often characterized as socially bad, and I’m just a person who struggles to take care of myself or maintain communication with my friends and family.

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know I don't mental illness? And how was the way I characterized it harmful?

I didn’t say either of those things. But in the interest of being candid, I think it’s harmful to categorize mental illness as socially bad versus socially good. My ADHD and Autism are both often characterized as socially bad, and I’m just a person who struggles to take care of myself or maintain communication with my friends and family.

> My ADHD and Autism

I can understand if you feel bad about the article, then. Autism is a bit often discussed here at HN, is it?

At the same time, the article focuses on borderline (BPD), which is very different from autism or ADHD, is it?

I had a mental illness too (something else than BPD, autism and ADHD). Like you, I didn't write or say anything bad to others. Still, I appreciate the article, I think it's a small step for me towards understanding the Internet even better:

I know a borderline person, and I'm not the slightest surprised if in some cases, such a person can write extremely mean things to others on the internet. The person I know, does this in real life to people s/he loves, when too stressed up (about minor things others wouldn't think much about). It's not her fault; instead, s/he had a bad childhood.

(At the same time, there're also, of course, many other reasons for bad behavior on the net.)

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly did, it's the top result searching for pdf. You can interpret the book as to deeming virtually anybody you think as either meeting or not meeting the criteria similar to a horoscope. The star signs being "Mr. Right" or "Mr. Sensitive" and "Drill Sargent" etc etc. I could very trivially make the case that the author very clearly meets his own "Mr. Right" stereotype and thus is an abuser. He considers himse…

I agree that somebody who wants to misinterpret something can certainly manage if they try. But I disagree that's what most people do with it. I've talked with literally dozens of people about the book. You're the only one so far who has been unable to apply it carefully and usefully.

What's not to like about a book that can frame anybody you dislike as an abuser beyond rehabilitation and yourself as a hapless victim? It's a book for the times!

I prefer Machiavelli's work because at least that framed the reader as being no better than anybody else. This is Machiavelli with a victim complex. My issue with the book isn't misunderstanding it's disgust at the black and white ethics.

Re: Disproportionate amount of bad online behaviour stems from psychological issues

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that somebody who wants to misinterpret something can certainly manage if they try. But I disagree that's what most people do with it. I've talked with literally dozens of people about the book. You're the only one so far who has been unable to apply it carefully and usefully.

What's not to like about a book that can frame anybody you dislike as an abuser beyond rehabilitation and yourself as a hapless victim? It's a book for the times! I prefer Machiavelli's work because at least that framed the reader as being no better than anybody else. This is Machiavelli with a victim complex. My issue with the book isn't misunderstanding it's disgust at the black and white ethics.

Gosh, it's weird that some people see abuse as bad and want to end it. How very black and white of them. If they keep on like that, they might oppose all sorts of harm to people. Quelle horreur!

The weirder part to me is the number of people who end up caping for abusers and abuse. Usually they're more subtle than you, though.

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