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“Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

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Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#221

Post by simonw »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #211
simonw wrote: post #191

It looks like the bigger question here is this: Is it the official policy of the home-assistant project that their software should not be packaged by NixOS? frenck is the fourth most active contributor to home-assistant - and it uses quite a few libraries he has authored: https://github.com/home-assistant/core/graphs/contributors If frenck is saying NixOS can't package his libraries, he's actually enforcing that NixO…

> Is it the official policy of the home-assistant project that their software should not be packaged by NixOS? I have the impression that it is the policy of the home-assistant project that their software should not be run in any way not supported by them, and not redistributed by any distribution or other third party. They're somewhat actively hostile against people not following that.

In which case I think that's the story here - this isn't so much about frenck v.s. NixOS as it is about home-assistant v.s. repackaging.

Though if that's the case it seems misleading of frenck that he hasn't clarified that this is a home-assistant policy in any of his comments around this.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#222

Post by kop316 »

simonw wrote: post #191

It looks like the bigger question here is this: Is it the official policy of the home-assistant project that their software should not be packaged by NixOS? frenck is the fourth most active contributor to home-assistant - and it uses quite a few libraries he has authored: https://github.com/home-assistant/core/graphs/contributors If frenck is saying NixOS can't package his libraries, he's actually enforcing that NixO…

That is what is seems like:

https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-addi...

For context, balloob is the founder of Home Assistant

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#223

Post by SuperSandro2000 »

stavros wrote: post #47
prepend wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we can’t have nice things. The project could have pinned the version and downloaded from pypi rather than repackaging. This isn’t a situation of “can do” it was “is it nice to do.” And the author mentioned that he’s changing the license to prevent it so it no longer becomes possible legally. I typically don’t like authors demanding stuff outside their license, but this started as a simple technical/commun…

> The project could have pinned the version and downloaded from pypi rather than repackaging. It couldn't, since Nix is a package manager and will only download things from its repository. It can't access the internet otherwise.

That is not quite right. NixOS can download files from the internet during build time for example to get the source code and you can even disable downloading things form the cache. It would be technically possible to download files at runtime but that does not align well with the reproducible goal and would also require some hacky patching.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#224

Post by richardfey »

bogwog wrote: post #127
gotts wrote: post #79

His About page https://frenck.dev/about/ looks a bit weird after I read that GitHub thread > I like to give back my knowledge and time to the open source community.

I think this is a cautionary tale about using social media while in a bad mood. Considering how unreasonable he was in that thread, I'm assuming he was just in a bad mood or something like that. Except now he's on the front page of HN with tons of comments criticizing him and painting him as a bad person. 99.999% of people will probably forget this by tomorrow, but it still would suck to be on the receiving end of th…

I guess it's not his first rodeo, he simply doesn't want to support whatever version is packaged by NixOS.

However the MIT license dictates what can or cannot be done. No need for further drama.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#225

Post by barbazoo »

codezero wrote: post #78
barbazoo wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not linking to jwz's blog from HN because... he doesn't want it to be I don't think ... that's how the internet works? (edit: I mean the "because... he doesn't want it to be" part)

if you follow an HN link to that site it detects the referrer and shows you something you don't want to see, so it's more than just because jwz doesn't want you to, he actively punishes people who unknowingly click a link that violates his preference.

oh for sure, I'm just saying anyone can link to anything on the internet afaik, you can't just say, don't link to me.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#226

Post by meepmorp »

lucideer wrote: post #196
FemmeAndroid wrote: post #159

Here's the thread NixOS posted to the Home Assistant forums, "Consider to avoid adding library dependencies from frenck." https://community.home-assistant.io/t/consider-to-avoid-addi...

Wow, that thread is wild. If the views in that discussion are generally representative of the perspective of a majority of homeassistant maintainers & stewards, I'd be extremely wary of relying on the software long term. > Just do as he asks This is the absolute antithesis of the intent of open source. What an awful community response.

> What an awful community response.

You're expecting an entirely unrelated community of users to be invested in the goals and interests of NixOS. They're not, and perhaps they see Frenk's point in a way that people that aren't part of their community do not.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#227

Post by evanelias »

alexandrerond wrote: post #46

Funny that the author complains they have no time to support users, but they have time to waste that of other open source maintainers and users as if the wish to package their Open Source software deserved no respect.

> the author complains they have no time to support users

In the github issue, as far as I can see, he doesn't "complain" at any point about having "no time to support users".

What he does say is "I'm not willing to support that or accept that burden" [of supporting NixOS users], and "I have no intention of spending time in this project" [meaning NixOS].

It appears that he just isn't interested in NixOS or supporting NixOS users. That's absolutely his prerogative, and does not mean he is "complaining" about not having "enough time" for it. And regardless, how he chooses to spend his volunteer/unpaid time really isn't anyone else's business.

There are some other valid criticisms here but I don't feel this particular point is a fair take.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#228

Post by ticviking »

yongjik wrote: post #143

Am I missing something, or is the project in question literally just one week old? https://pypi.org/project/ambee/#history https://github.com/frenck/python-ambee/commits/main

If the response to someone finding and using your work is the kind of over the top demand to "don't use the thing I just released under a permissive license" with multiple replies that amount to, "Don't use the thing in a way I don't like kthanxbai" how can you depend on it?

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#229

Post by Zancarius »

fmajid wrote: post #216
Zancarius wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think the best solution in this case is to fork his repo from a version still under the MIT license and work with home-automation to replace their dependency.

He is a HomeAssistant community admin and they took his side, this is a case of two FOSS communities with irreconcilable differences.

Interesting! Thanks for the insight!

I think you're right. This is largely a difference of opinion. It's a shame it couldn't have worked out better.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#230

Post by Agingcoder »

steveklabnik wrote: post #15

I am reminded of jwz, debian, and xscreensaver (Not linking to jwz's blog from HN because... he doesn't want it to be.)

It's the exact same issue.

Author ships code with a permissive license, other people build code, and view things from a purely legal perspective.

Author realizes that code doesn't exist in a vacuum, and that actual binaries/packages matter (different versions, etc) , which he doesn't control, and it's a problem to him.

He then asks the distro guys to do things differently. Distro guys are either offended (evil author!) , legalists (he chose the wrong license, his fault) or sometimes helpful (maybe there's an alternative) .

I think it's obvious the authors made a licensing mistake, and I don't understand why distro maintainers don't want to see this.

All in all, it's quite fascinating : a bit of law, a bit of social contract, and something truly in the 'grey area' where we, humans , don't always shine.

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