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California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

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Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant her addiction and death are a clear example of the dangers of ketamine. The practice of astrology (believing in it or not) in itself doesn't necessarily lead to substance abuse. I'm personally quite interested in astrology as a framework and it's psychology.

There's nothing clear about this: "the cause and circumstances of her death are still unknown" "there are some conflicting accounts related to her disappearance and death" You're making a lot of assumptions based on your own biases. I'm pointing out (tongue-in-cheek) that a different set of biases can create an entirely different narrative, equally correlated.

Ah, you're right.. I missed the tongue-in-cheek :-) ..but I remembered it from reading it in the Ketamine book by Karl Jansen long ago. At the time she was doing it daily and slept 3 hours a day.

Based on an 1998 interview with Moore's Journey's into the Bright World (1978) co-author Howard Alltounian, M.D. he wrote:

"Moore went to visit John Lilly at his ranch in Decker Canyon, Malibu. She was astonished to find that he was, at that point, describing "Vitamin K" (his preferred term) as an "extremely dangerous" substance. Lilly had just been through a massive binge ending in a near fatal accident, and out of his original ten person study group, one had "driven his car off a cliff" (Dr. Craig Enright) and another hd met an "equally lugubrious end" (Carol Carlssen).

"John Lilly's last words to me were, "You'd better be damn strong if you're going to play that game."... As this book goes to press I have once again increased the doses."

Moore disappeared from her house on January 14, 1979. Her husband spent a year searching for her, including journeys to Hong Kong and Thailand, places to which she had traveled in the past. Her skeleton was found in early spring, 1981, in the place where she had frozen to death. She had made a journey at night into the dark world of the forest, a potent Jungian symbol, curled up in a tree, and then injected herself repeatedly with all of the ketamine she had been able to find."

I am not sure if Howard or Karl are assuming things here.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing clear about this: "the cause and circumstances of her death are still unknown" "there are some conflicting accounts related to her disappearance and death" You're making a lot of assumptions based on your own biases. I'm pointing out (tongue-in-cheek) that a different set of biases can create an entirely different narrative, equally correlated.

Ah, you're right.. I missed the tongue-in-cheek :-) ..but I remembered it from reading it in the Ketamine book by Karl Jansen long ago. At the time she was doing it daily and slept 3 hours a day. Based on an 1998 interview with Moore's Journey's into the Bright World (1978) co-author Howard Alltounian, M.D. he wrote: "Moore went to visit John Lilly at his ranch in Decker Canyon, Malibu. She was astonished to find tha…

That sounds very consistent with her husband's (Alltounian's) conviction that she committed suicide. I'm not sure what this says about the dangers of ketamine, especially considering that ketamine seems to mitigate suicidal ideation.

I had never heard this person's name before today, but I can easily imagine a different narrative: She was self-medicating for depression and might not have lasted as long as she did without the drug. Sounds like we'll never know.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#223

Probably 95% of people can handle psychedelics. That last 5% are not going to handle psychedelics well. I'm talking about the people on Market and 6th with schizophrenia. If you give someone with schizophrenia mushrooms they will have a total break with reality and might not come back easily. This is going to make the street people of CA even that more crazy.

1% of people have schizophrenia.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#224
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now his name shall forever remain linked with one of the most vile spouts of toxic sludge in the contemporary media. Legacies are complicated.

I mean, I don't like Huffington post but dang...

Neither do I!

(and, BTW, I agree with the general meaning of your quote from AB)

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, you're right.. I missed the tongue-in-cheek :-) ..but I remembered it from reading it in the Ketamine book by Karl Jansen long ago. At the time she was doing it daily and slept 3 hours a day. Based on an 1998 interview with Moore's Journey's into the Bright World (1978) co-author Howard Alltounian, M.D. he wrote: "Moore went to visit John Lilly at his ranch in Decker Canyon, Malibu. She was astonished to find tha…

That sounds very consistent with her husband's (Alltounian's) conviction that she committed suicide. I'm not sure what this says about the dangers of ketamine, especially considering that ketamine seems to mitigate suicidal ideation. I had never heard this person's name before today, but I can easily imagine a different narrative: She was self-medicating for depression and might not have lasted as long as she did wit…

A low dose has anti-depressive effects, but these are much larger doses. According to her husband she was addicted, and on Erowid there are reports of people getting addicted to it: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Ketamine_Addicti...

Regarding suicide people could get strange ideas due to ketamine, perhaps it's accidental death - perhaps she wanted to try the biggest dose to get the ultimate revelation and while being in the so called K-hole, the cold got her.

Like a few unlucky souls experimenting with psychedelics, they want to fly to close to the sun and fall down. Zoe7.

Ketamine or psychedelic use can be a form of self-medication. But you'd think that if she had depression it was written about after her death or mentioned in one of her books or articles

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#226
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs like LSD and Mescaline are not, primarily, intoxicants. Technically they get you intoxicated, but that misses the point by a wide margin. These drugs should be important in our society, the experience is indescribable and not necessarily fun - but mostly. If it were not for the culture wars of the 1960s, and corrupt lecherous idiots like Timothy Leary and Ken Keasy scaring the bejesus out of the establishment ,…

Any sources for your comments about Kesey and Leary? I've always found them both fairly interesting (if flawed) characters but my knowledge mainly comes via Tom Wolfe, Robert Anton Wilson and some pop-history books.

I read their works. They were on about the ability of LSD to undermine the establishment. (They may have been right). The result of their success was a vicious clamp down.

My view was crystallised by HST in his "Looking west from Vegas with the right kind of eyes..." monologue in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (it is in the film, if reading books is not your thing. The film is, IMO, a faithful portrayal of the book)

When it comes to drugs, I am more of a follower, not a imitator, of HST than Leary. Drugs should be fun. When they stop being fun, stop doing drugs. Real simple!

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#227
post #48

I strongly support decriminalization, but I'm curious: are people in California getting arrested for the possession of psychedelics for personal use in any real numbers? That is, is this bill going to change anything on the ground, or is it just a step in the right direction?

I love mycology. I would grow mushrooms in an instant if it were legal-- so this is important to me.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#228
post #48

I strongly support decriminalization, but I'm curious: are people in California getting arrested for the possession of psychedelics for personal use in any real numbers? That is, is this bill going to change anything on the ground, or is it just a step in the right direction?

I have been. But that's not what this is about. This is a step towards legalization and social normalization of the usage of these plants.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That last 5% are not going to handle psychedelics well." The way this comment is written makes it sound as if 100% of people will be using psychedelics after decriminalization goes into effect.

It seems likely more people will try it, given the rosy-colored picture most sources paint of psychedelics (vs. something like meth) and the fact that it's legally available. 100%? Of course not, but some who are susceptible will likely be in that percentage of people who decide to give it a shot.

Psychodelics are not something that one will use everyday.

From the list: " psilocybin, psilocyn, dimethyltryptamine (DMT) , ibogaine, mescaline, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) , ketamine, and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)" - I think only MDMA is abusable.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#230

Whenever I have taken psychedelic drugs (mushrooms), or taken cannabis, it has often made me more paranoid. Has there been any research into how psychedelic drugs may fuel conspiracy theories?

Surprisingly my LSD experience led me to acceptance of OSI Model ;)

Before that I thought that it was purely academical masturbation without any real connection to reality.

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