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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

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Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#221

Post by wrs »

danbmil99 wrote: post #177

There's actually a regional difference. Growing up on the east coast in New York people rarely smiled at each other on the street. Someone you didn't know smiling at you could mean a crazy person, or some sort of con artist trying to suck you into interacting with them. Living on the west coast for the last twenty years, the situation is totally different. On a bike trail, on the sidewalk, people often smile and nod…

In some parts of the US (particularly small towns and the Midwest) people will not only smile and nod at strangers on the sidewalk, but say hello or ask “how are you?” (not expecting anything other than “fine, thanks”). In New York, that would definitely be cause for concern!

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#222

Post by iJohnDoe »

sebular wrote: post #90
firebaze wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't second this. Everytime I'm in the US I'm scared of all the friendly, smiling people, asking "How are you?" in such a friendly tone, it's delightful. Of course it's faked, anyone knows, and dare if you'd reply with "not good, my aunt just died". Awkward situation ensues, everybody tries to get out of the situation ("and what would you like to have for breakfast tomorrow?"). Now replay the same situation in ano…

I'm an American and I love smiling at strangers and receiving a genuine smile in return. It's the perfect minimal conversation: no words, just sharing a moment of mutual positivity and kinship. It's like you said the perfect thing, except you didn't have to think of anything clever. It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside,…

> It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule.

I would say this is pretty common in the USA. Anyone smiling or laughing, especially in the customer service industry, can easily be interpreted that they are up to something. Makes customers uncomfortable. Obviously a generalized statement, but it seems most food and customer service industries despise their customers.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#223

Post by Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL »

Quite a lot of US culture can come off as phony to (Eastern) Europeans. Friend of mine went to the US for a business schooling event and said people were completely incapable of honest criticism. They would sugar coat criticism under 10 layers of phony praise. He was the only one who actually said something was bad outright, if someone gave a bad presentation. He attributed it to cultural difference. Guess it is related to what Americans think is friendly / unfriendly behavior.

It's tough to navigate Americans. They're super friendly, but often I feel like it's their version of "being polite" and not more.

Just yesterday I read https://idlewords.com/2018/12/gluten_free_antarctica.htm which is pretty amusing, and I recommend reading. Quoting the most relevant (to this discussion) part from it:

> “Can I ask you something? How come the Russians never smile? I’ve never seen them smiling.”

> “They’re at work. They're Russians.”

> "Is it normal for them to eat without talking to one another?”

> “This is their job. They get 20 minutes to eat.”

> “Yeah, but they never smile. Are they happy?”

> Are the Russians happy? Is anyone happy? Can one ever truly be said to be happy?

> I am tempted to go full Slav on Conor, to explain to him how we are all just grains of dust suspended in the howling void, searching for meaning in the fleeting moments before we are yanked back to the oblivion from whence we emerged, naked and screaming. But for all his faults he's just a kid stuck spending his summer microwaving Yorkshire puddings for difficult people. I take pity.

> “Russians are formal. It would be weird of them to act relaxed on duty. They are all smiling on the inside.”

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#224

Post by fogihujy »

strokirk wrote: post #145
olivermarks wrote: post #29

This is such a great article imo that really captures fundamental societal and cultural differences. I would say that Sweden has a similar 'grave' approach to life and that smiling is reserved for funny situations. Much as I love the US 'etiquette smile' when passing people in the street and meeting, social pressure to conform can mask stress, anxiety and solemnity. The English used to feel pretty uncomfortable about…

What? No, Swedes smile a lot and have a lot of polite set phrases. Although it's more rare to hear people say "good" to an "how are you", it's usually some variation of "jovars", "can't complain".

No they don't, when you compare them to people who smile a lot.

Neither Swedes or the Nordic peoples see themselves as gloomy as others do, though, so in that sense they're a lot like Russians.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#225

Post by kgeist »

When Americans smile, they think they are being friendly, but in some cultures it is perceived as a predatory grin. Cold War propaganda posters often show Americans smiling, and it's not to show the are friendly, easy-going people.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#226

Post by IgorPartola »

I am Ukrainian. Came to the US when I was 14. I may never be cool like all the hard looking dudes in movies and whatnot but I smile all the time because either I find something funny in what I’m engaged in or if I don’t that I try to think of it as such. I have always been this way and I can’t imagine not doing it.

Also, I have read a few comments in this discussion about how fake American smiles and “how are you?”s are and I have to disagree somewhat. To a large extent Americans use “how are you” and “what’s up” as generic greetings but at the same time you can often tell when someone is using it instead of “hello” vs having 30-120 seconds to chat pretty easily. If my day is going well I make a point of telling the random person I’m interacting with why that is: “I’m doing great. The weather is so nice and I had a lovely cup of coffee on my back porch today.” Quick interaction, mostly meaningless, but to me it’s a nice way to break up the monotony. On the other hand if I’m having a bad day I don’t feel like hiding it but the trick is to not make it the other person’s problem: “I’m getting by. I blew a tire on the way to work and I just had all four tires replaced. But oh well, that’s just how irony works I guess.” Again, quick and simple and not the typical “fine” response. At worst they go “oh that sucks. Paper or plastic?” but more often it could result in a short conversation and I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#227

Post by ajuc »

mycologos wrote: post #189
3pt14159 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russians are so extreme. Even though my favourite professors at Waterloo in Canada were Russian, it wasn't until I learned some basic Russian that I finally got over the typical view of them drilled into people by Hollywood. Your run of the mill Russian is honest about their feelings. Not honest about the facts, no, they can cheat on an insurance filing just fine. But that coldness that so many of them seem to have i…

A few years ago Masha Gessen did an episode of Conversations With Tyler , a podcast hosted by Tyler Cowen, and at one point she said this about Russian friendships [1]: > ... I think that — and this may answer your question — Russian friendships are much more emotional and intense than American friendships [...] When I moved back to [the USA] five and a half years ago, it was like this sense of whiplash because I had…

Eh. "Friend" in English just isn't a good translation, it should be something like "BFF". You aren't expected to have 50 friends in Slavic countries because it would be too much of an investment and in English people call others friend after they waited together for 20 minutes at a train station.

But the concept exists, it's just a different word.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#228

Post by readflaggedcomm »

justusthane wrote: post #220
colanderman wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect in "American", "how are you" is often a request for actionable information. Your Russian friend took the question as an absolute, was confused why the doctor was asking a question with an obvious answer, and proceeded to give a reply which communicated no new information to the doctor. The doctor meanwhile was expecting an answer relative to the information he had, and hence took the negative reply as a sig…

> “good, but I have a billing issue" I think this gets exactly to it, but I don’t agree with the rest of your comment. In both the provided examples, the fact that there's a request for actionable information is already implicitly understood based on the situation. When a doctor comes into your room, you already know they're checking on your condition. The "How are you?" is just general greeting (to which, in casual…

It is a request for new information, in the specific case of a doctor seeing an admitted patient. Which makes his nervous response more inappropriate.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#229

Post by cperciva »

davidgh wrote: post #218
nwb wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give some examples of some Russian words that are more enduring than English words? I've always been fascinated by this.

Молодец, нельзя, фу, тоска, почемучка. When learning Russian these are just a few of the words I found myself saying even when speaking English. Which gives a hint that a good direct translation maybe isn’t quite there.

There's a rule in linguistics, that the more often a word is used, the shorter it will be -- almost like Huffman coding.

In that light, comparing the one-syllable English "Why?" to the three-syllable Russian "почему?" says something about the safety of asking questions in different countries.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#230

Post by [deleted] »

IgorPartola wrote: post #226

I am Ukrainian. Came to the US when I was 14. I may never be cool like all the hard looking dudes in movies and whatnot but I smile all the time because either I find something funny in what I’m engaged in or if I don’t that I try to think of it as such. I have always been this way and I can’t imagine not doing it. Also, I have read a few comments in this discussion about how fake American smiles and “how are you?”s…

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