Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances • Hacker News Board

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#221

Post by CogitoCogito » Sat, May 29, 2021, 7:20 AM UTC

mpercy wrote: post #200

spockz wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing. In the Netherlands it is free. You get a midwife, hospital and medical staff when required. You get a box of goods for the first days of baby care. We get 4-6 weeks paid leave as a father and 16 as a mother. There is help in the house for about a week to take care of baby and mother and do checkups. The only thing you pay a symbolic amount of money for is some to borrow tools like bath chairs. Probably some…

Most people have good health care plans through their employer that pays for most of this stuff. I paid a few hundred dollars to the hospital when my child was born and we were there for several days. There are just a lot of people who for one reason or another do not have those benefits. It’s a very multimodal experience here unfortunately.

Given my experience with both the US and Swedish healthcare systems, I'm not sure I would rate even the absolute best healthcare plans as good. Growing up, my healthcare plan was about the best possible (both parents were doctors in the same hospital so we got a sort of deluxe super plan better than even the regular doctor families got with only one doctor parent), but I would still say it was about as good as Sweden's setup.

I don't mean this as an attack on you, but I think Americans overestimate the quality of their healthcare. The US system really is pretty bad from top to bottom. There are of course people who have it _worse_ (e.g. those not insured at all), but I don't find any aspect of the system particularly impressive. And considering the fact that it's by far the most expensive per capita of any healthcare in the world, it really becomes totally inexcusable. American healthcare is a national disgrace.

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#222

Post by etempleton » Sat, May 29, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #91

reacharavindh wrote: post #33

Interesting to read this here. When my son was born (naturally, normal weight, fully healthy, and around expected due date), the midwife in Denmark had educated us about the Danish way of handling the birth - as soon as the baby comes out, they literally put the baby on mom’s chest, and leave us(parents, and baby) alone in the room for about an hour. Nothing needs to be done other than the baby being in care of it’s…

The U.S. experience used to be this way, but about 100 years ago the medical industry realized they could make a lot of money off of child birth (our last bill was $40k). The hospitals released advertisements scaring women from voodoo (read: black) women/midwives helping with birth so that doctors and surgeons could take over, it worked fantastically. The doctors eventually chained women to beds and tested various ch…

Immediate skin-to-skin contact has reemerged based on data in the United States. Some hospitals made the switch years ago. Immediate skin-to-skin contact and the newborn, unless there is a medical reason to do otherwise, is never removed from the presence of the birth mother.

In some cases this requires re-tooling and renovating the birthing wing of hospitals as they were previously optimized for immediate incubation by default. It takes time and money.

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#223

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL » Sat, May 29, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

brnt wrote: post #159

spockz wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing. In the Netherlands it is free. You get a midwife, hospital and medical staff when required. You get a box of goods for the first days of baby care. We get 4-6 weeks paid leave as a father and 16 as a mother. There is help in the house for about a week to take care of baby and mother and do checkups. The only thing you pay a symbolic amount of money for is some to borrow tools like bath chairs. Probably some…

Parental leave in the Netherlands, both for women and man, is the lowest in the EU. By a wide margin. So, while we get some things right, leave and the conseqences that implies for the carreer of the mother is not something we can boast about.

Lowest in the EU? The father has 1 week off in Italy, and this has been increased from 3 days in the last 2 years. Mother has up to 2 months I believe (I'm a father and was shocked by this. If you had a kid, you'll laugh at anyone presuming 1 week is enough)

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#224

Post by tweetle_beetle » Sun, May 30, 2021, 8:11 AM UTC

Fomite wrote: post #111

mensetmanusman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. experience used to be this way, but about 100 years ago the medical industry realized they could make a lot of money off of child birth (our last bill was $40k). The hospitals released advertisements scaring women from voodoo (read: black) women/midwives helping with birth so that doctors and surgeons could take over, it worked fantastically. The doctors eventually chained women to beds and tested various ch…

There is no "U.S. experience" because of the absolute mess of our healthcare system. There are birthing centers that work very much like the process described above.

Of course no country of the size of the US has a single experience of anything. But in this case, it's about as close as it can be: 98.4% of births are in hospitals, with 0.52% in birthing centres [1].

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK555484/

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#225

Post by brnt » Sun, May 30, 2021, 12:03 PM UTC

spockz wrote: post #208

brnt wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parental leave in the Netherlands, both for women and man, is the lowest in the EU. By a wide margin. So, while we get some things right, leave and the conseqences that implies for the carreer of the mother is not something we can boast about.

In 2018 we were indeed among the lowest but not the lowest: https://www.capital-ges.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/1.png from https://www.capital-ges.com/maternity-paternity-and-parental... I am not sure the career consequences are better elsewhere. What makes you say that pregnancy/motherhood has less effect on careers in different countries?

That graph does not represent the actual situation, it might include just full-paid leave. In countries like Germany, France and in Scandinavia, you get a shared budget: e.g. in Germany as a couple you get 14 months of which one parent can take 12months max, at ~65% pay. That's a whole different ballgame than the Dutch 5 weeks, even if fully paid.

I lost access, but I seem to recall this [1] article covers it quite thoroughly: low paternal leave is a likely explanation for the low (again, lowest in the EU) number of woman working fulltime. Then there's [2] and [3].

It seems obvious that once you enable the partner to take care, you enable the couple to make their own choices, whatever they may be.

[1] https://www.ftm.nl/artikelen/kasboekje-vrouwen-financien [2] https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-... [3] https://decorrespondent.nl/8071/vind-jij-ambitieuze-vrouwen-...

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#226

Post by captainredbeard » Sun, May 30, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

tenfourwookie wrote: post #188

I received the opposite care. Was delivered by C-section, no contact with anyone while in incubation for several weeks. My mother would often tell the story of how she was unable to touch me for weeks after my birth. 45 years on and I haven’t a single bond, not with family, not with friends, not even with animals. Like a ghost floating through the world with no attachments and seemingly no compelling interest in them…

Sounds like emotional avoidance; check out DBT, it is an effective treatment and might improve your suffering even if it doesn’t “fix” it. God Bless, friend.

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#227

Post by captainredbeard » Sun, May 30, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

mberning wrote: post #140

There is a lot of “woo woo” crap in the child birth industry. All the way from hardcore “all natural” proponents to traditional “hospital birth no matter what” people. Unfortunately this causes a lot of anxiety and second guessing on the part of new parents. I really didn’t appreciate the quasi-relgious or cult-like guidance we received on breast feeding our son, only to have him lose 15% of his body weight and not g…

Sounds like poor pediatric oversight FWIW.

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#228

Post by captainredbeard » Sun, May 30, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

souprock wrote: post #147

choeger wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While home birth is certainly possible and apparently can be a very nice experience, I strongly suggest going into a hospital for birth (you should be able to choose a hospital of your liking after talking to the nurses/doctors/midwifes working there). Birth is safe in most cases, but complications do happen. While the probability is low, the possible damage is extreme. Please consider the availability of experienced…

I probably wouldn't have most of my family if I'd gone to a hospital. My twins would have been a C-section, and then the scar would have led to another C-section and to troubles with the placenta invading the scar. Before long the uterus just plain wouldn't work OK, and would endanger the lives of future babies. Avoiding a C-section is really important for having a large family. My 13th is due in 6 weeks.

Congrats on your family!!

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#229

Post by jjeaff » Tue, Jun 01, 2021, 12:55 AM UTC

Stratoscope wrote: post #154

jjeaff wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We never heard even the slightest hint of a sales pitch for circumcision. A single question of whether we were planning to do it or not was all.

In fact, we had an anti-circumcision pitch. They showed a video of the process. It was horrible and makes me queasy just remembering it.

If they were trying to convince you against it, I'm guessing they weren't giving you a video of the average procedure. Kind of like how peta videos aren't exactly representative of how most of the farming industry operates.

I watched the one on my son, and while it wasn't nothing, it was a tiny amount of skin and it was healed up very nicely before even his umbilical cord had fully dried and fell off.

Re: Immediate skin-to-skin contact with unstable newborns improves survival chances

#230

Post by durandal1 » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 12:17 AM UTC

cultofmetatron wrote: post #149

durandal1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had 2 children within the last 5 years, both born at Stanford, Palo Alto, and both were immediately put skin to skin after birth, so I don't think it's unique to Denmark.

Palo alto is not typical of America. Its one of the richest places in the country for one along with having a high percentage of liberal/educated people. IN America you have to be upper middle class at minimum to have the same standard of living as the bottom tier in Scandinavian countries.

Thanks for educating me about Scandinavia, I only lived in Sweden for 30 years :) With regards to standard of living, I disagree that you have to be upper class to maintain a typical Swedish standard of living. If you derive "upper class" from the national median salary then yes, but that would put a lot of the California working class in the "upper class" bound as well.