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U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#221

Post by the_optimist »

permo-w wrote: post #188
the_optimist wrote: post #96

It’s not about a level, it’s about the rule. To everyone who says “15% is fair,” consider what you’ll feel like at 70% marginal. Literal global rule. Some would call that overreach.

If you're at 70% marginal, it means you're already earning an ungodly amount of money

How much could you possibly need to live a good life? Certainly not more than, say, $50 per day, right? Let’s simply cap ourselves there.

I say this to demonstrate that “ungodly” always means “more than me,” irrespective of all else. Justification through jealousy. A recipe for a lowest-common denominator society, at global scale.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#222

Post by permo-w »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #218
permo-w wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a good idea for the current, somewhat dystopian world we're living in, but have you ever thought about whether huge corporations are even a net positive in the first place? I think that even if taxing corporations doesn't make sense in terms of tax revenue, it makes sense in terms of stopping companies from growing too large Imo corp tax should be nil until you get to about 1m profit, and then brutal…

You have the opposite of that at the moment. Big companies can shift their profits around the world to avoid corporation tax but small ones have no choice but to pay it.

and that's exactly what this is trying to address

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#223

Post by suifbwish »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #48

Pretty hype about this TBH. There is a long history of companies domiciling in say, Monaco, The Cayman Island, Panama etc to avoid taxes and regulations where they mainly operate. My understanding is that the current process in vogue for the mega cap companies is the "double irish dutch sandwich" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dut... No one, including tax lawyers, will tell you with a straig…

Would it really be that difficult for a big company like Google or Facebook to operate from a fleet of floating data centers in international waters utilizing dedicated satellites for connectivity? If you denounce your citizenship and do not declare a new nationality you are only bound by maritime law.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#224

Post by randomopining »

defterGoose wrote: post #213
randomopining wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that nations can syphon off tax dollars from companies that create nothing in their lands is pretty frightening. Rentier effect x 100.

But that's quite literally not what's happening. The problem is companies that do a significant portion of their business in one country using legal loopholes to claim that those operations actually occurred in other jurisdictions where they would have virtually zero tax liability.

Yeah exactly lol. So they pay the lower taxes to another country like Ireland or Malta. Those countries played no role in their ability to produce. Like what did Ireland do to make Apple the success it is today? etc.

Apple wins (lower taxes). Ireland wins (free income from a random corp). America loses (loses tax dollars to invest in infrastructure, education, etc).

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#225

Post by prepend »

ojbyrne wrote: post #40
prepend wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to call out the other way is to push the income to individuals so corporate profits are always near zero. So to apply energy on taxing individuals rather than corps. For corps income is so fluid, I think we get more revenue with tariffs, usage taxes, property tax, VAT, sales, etc. Profit isn’t as important to corporations as it is to individuals.

How would taxing individuals make the use of expensing 5000 square foot offices, country club dues and private jet travel less attractive for executives? They would just pile up the deductible expenses and take less taxable compensation.

Lower corporate tax rates make it more likely to distribute profit to employees (bonuses) and shareholders (dividends, stock repurchase).

My reasoning is that people prefer direct compensation over perks, and shareholders can’t get perks.

With a high tax rate, there’s more of a benefit to pay deductible benefits rather than bonuses. With lower tax rate, the incentive goes away so corps can just pay directly.

The goal is to get max tax revenue, so whatever equilibrium results in the highest government revenue is preferred. So the comparison should be what brings in the most revenue.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#226

Post by permo-w »

the_optimist wrote: post #221
permo-w wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're at 70% marginal, it means you're already earning an ungodly amount of money

How much could you possibly need to live a good life? Certainly not more than, say, $50 per day, right? Let’s simply cap ourselves there. I say this to demonstrate that “ungodly” always means “more than me,” irrespective of all else. Justification through jealousy. A recipe for a lowest-common denominator society, at global scale.

>How much could you possibly need to live a good life? Certainly not more than, say, $50 per day, right? Let’s simply cap ourselves there

You say that as if it's ridiculous. That sounds fine to me. Warren Buffet espouses exactly the same thing I'm saying. Is that jealousy too?

Ungodly means more than you need. No one needs a billion dollars. The top marginal tax rate was 90% in the 1960s, and guess what? inequality was much lower

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#227

Post by PoignardAzur »

anm89 wrote: post #113

The fact that everyone views it as normal for the US to endorse global tax laws is pretty frightening

In that case, the US are one of the last OECD countries to get onboard.

If you want to look at a case of aggressive US extraterritorialism, FATCA is a lot more egregious.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#228

Post by permo-w »

JamesBarney wrote: post #215
permo-w wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most economists think infinite growth in a finite world is a good idea. Companies reinvesting in themselves and growing bigger is not inherently a good thing. Large corporations, in my opinion, are already causing the breakdown of local societies. Deals are done over large areas, less and less people are in control of their own fates. More and more externalities are caused as business leaders are more detached from t…

> Most economists think infinite growth in a finite world is a good idea. Most economists thing growth and raising people's incomes is a good idea. Capitalism seems like a pretty good deal. Are there any other governments or societies you would think it would benefit the U.S. to switch to?

I can name 5 without even putting 10 seconds' thought into it

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#229

Post by suifbwish »

dnautics wrote: post #132
0xB31B1B wrote: post #48

Pretty hype about this TBH. There is a long history of companies domiciling in say, Monaco, The Cayman Island, Panama etc to avoid taxes and regulations where they mainly operate. My understanding is that the current process in vogue for the mega cap companies is the "double irish dutch sandwich" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dut... No one, including tax lawyers, will tell you with a straig…

This is all just because we are afraid of the T word. A uniform tariff and matching currency export control achieves the same effect, and doesn't impose US hegemony on the rest of the wrold.

How does cryptocurrency fit into currency export control exactly?

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#230

Post by the_optimist »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #144
the_optimist wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No pretending. Sometimes binaries do matter.

Sometimes. Now, do you have an argument that in this situation, binaries matter?

This would establish a standard for global minimum taxes, an instrument of power. The history of such instruments of power being repealed without dramatic catastrophe (warfare) is near zero. The failure of such standards to fulfill their intended purpose is high.

Who exactly is ceding what to who here? Extremely naive people seem to think this is a “let’s hold hands and jump into the pool together” idea, as though they’re holding hands with everyone from Gates, Buffett, to bin Salman, Putin and Xi, and that’s going to work.

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