Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Starting a crypto project

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 373 posts

Re: Starting a crypto project

#221

Post by e12e »

noxer wrote: post #199
mtnGoat wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: coil.com, what they do is entirely possible on a centralized system. cam sites have been using token based internal payment systems based on minutes viewed, tips, etc at sub $0.01 levels for 20+ years now. and until the tubes came along, all sides profited handsomely. source: i helped build some.

That not what coil does. Coils is just payment provider for web monetization. You can use another (probably none exist so far) and more importantly you can use web monetization outside of coil owned platforms. The cam site thing maybe look similar on the surface but its not. It only works in very limited full controlled closed system. It can not scale to the web. You would need 100+ subscriptions in the end that not…

> you can use web monetization outside of coil owned platforms.

Like you can use PayPal to sell (access to) digital assets? Or patron?

I'm not sure which part of the core value proposition of coil has anything to do with blockchain?

And small wonder: crypto/chains allows us to transfer trust (eg, I trust i can buy milk for my dollar, I buy bitcoin for a dollar, I give you bitcoin, if you can sell bitcoin for a dollar, we trust that I have given you the opportunity to buy milk).

This could also go via bank transfer, or hybrid systems like PayPal,stripe or vipps[1].

I see some benefit to "magic crypto cash on the interwebz"- but untraceable tender is generally not what chains facilitate. Quite the opposite.

When you realize crypto currency can go two ways: perfect taxation (billionaires and corporations will fight it, to the death), or: perfect money laundring/tax evasion (government will fight it, to the death) - the crypto future looks quite distant.

[1] a Norwegian bank owned platform for instant digital settlement: https://vipps.no

Re: Starting a crypto project

#222

Post by vmception »

tromp wrote: post #209
vmception wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These arbitrary distinctions don't help the asset class either. There is just as massive of a graveyard of dead chains because the dev teams could not exchange time for food and shelter.

can you provide an example of a dead coin that featured real innovation without rewarding its creators?

There is no way for this to be a productive conversation if ‘real innovation’ can always be a goal post to move. The other side of that is that I don't remember, none of this has been relevant since 2016 which is half a decade ago now. Just trudge bitcointalk for defunct chains and find one that you liked the roadmap of.

There is a more quantifiable trend of market tolerance in this asset class for what founders can earn.

You have an extremely antiquated view of what that can be, the impractical charity developer building a product that the communities adores and spawns into a very active network. That pretty much never happens as the dev needs to use their time to exchange for food and shelter and nobody else picks up the baton.

Following that, devs attempted small dev taxes of 1-2%, the market barely tolerated that for some years, and it also wasn't good enough to fund development

Following that the market tolerated larger preallocations of 30%.

Then it tolerated fund raises where developers kept funds raised and large preallocations, similar to equities.

Then it tolerated even more where low float assets are now commonplace, with developers keeping upwards of 99% of the asset created, keeping the funds collected, and have unlimited issuance capabilities.

But there is no hard line in the sand, and not everyone has an uncomfortable relationship with money such that arbitrary thresholds determine what a founder “deserves”. It is obvious that being able to actually pay a dev team has done much more for the speed of development in this space than harping on about some irrelevant ideology. You might find it surprising (okay now I am being facetious, but it still has to be said to highlight the inanity of your last decade view), but the entire industrial era has the same aspect based on paying workers closer to the value they provide at the time and thats the only model proven to work in an economy.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#224

Post by zaphar »

wmf wrote: post #217
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

Can confirm. I’m friends with a group of very smart distributed systems engineers who were excited to launch an actually useful crypto project that gets talked about here from time to time. As much as they’re excited about the technology itself, very few people are actually interested in using it. Instead, their business seems to revolve around the value of the utility tokens for their project. Few people are buying…

Few people are buying the utility tokens to pay for the service. They’re buying them to hoard so they can resell to other speculators That's not a utility token. If you want to create a true utility token, make it stable and you won't have to worry about speculation.

This is impossible. If it can be traded it can be speculated. The value of any tradable asset is determined by how much someone is willing to trade for it and by nothing else. There is no way to make it stable other than to make it impossible to trade.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#225

Post by tjs8rj »

arcticbull wrote: post #118
noxer wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me as if you dont have any "blockchain project" ideas. That's fine do something else. If whatever you every wished to crate does not profit form this tech, it probably really just does not profit form it. Nothing wrong with that. It would be a shame to slap blockchain on a cool project that doesn't need it.

No it's not that, there's not a single blockchain based solution that achieves better results than a classical solution. Not a single one. Never has been. Not in 14 years. I'm open to one showing up! But, well, it hasn't. And that's because there's a huge fundamental cost to trustlessness, decentralization and permissionlessness that substantially no project actually benefits from.

I’m jaded with the crypto-scammery too, but isn’t lower fees with 24/7 instant transactions the selling point? (For low fees think Binance not Coinbase).

Re: Starting a crypto project

#226

Post by wmf »

tromp wrote: post #19

Sounds like he's talking about tokens, rather than an honest blockchain built from scratch with no rewards for the developers other than creating innovative technology. Without a premine/instamine/devtax, there's no need to shill the coins, or care much about the price.

I was about to say that Grin tried that and nobody has heard of it... then I saw the username.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#228

Post by chrisco255 »

jude- wrote: post #213
chrisco255 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not cashing out, I'm staying in the Ethereum ecosystem for good. And no they're not worthless. USDC for example, is literally exchangeable for $1. I can literally take out a six figure loan against crypto holdings and buy a house with it. I can also pay off high interest credit card debt and earn yield at the same time. All the other tokens are liquid and exchangeable 24/7.

> USDC for example, is literally exchangeable for $1. Thank you for reaffirming my point! The purpose of defi is to re-distribute dollars from people buying in to people cashing out, while providing literally no other goods or services. It's not like people want these tokens for other purposes -- you buy them so you can sell them to subsequent participants. Despite the deceptive machinations of defi, the act of selli…

> The purpose of defi is to re-distribute dollars from people buying in to people cashing out

Not at all. You didn't read my post above did you? Let me ask you, if you want to be a market maker for the NASDAQ, can you do so with $1K in capital? Can you do it 24/7 from any country in the world? No? Can you loan money to someone in Thailand in 15 seconds? Can you borrow money from a pool of lenders from 84 different countries? No? Can you build an app that plugs into your bank, NASDAQ, and a video game API without paying anyone any service or API fees? No??

Well you don't get DeFi. So you should study both the traditional existing system as well as this new one so you can see quite clearly why this system exists and what problems it solves.

Buddy, I'm not worried about taxes on profits vs. losses. It's no different than stock trading. No one has ever pretended there isn't a paper trail: of course there is! It's an open blockchain. But you're running with your pet theory for why it exists straight over a cliff.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#229

Post by jude- »

wmf wrote: post #219
jude- wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for reaffirming my point! If you want your token traded on uniswap, you'll write the integration code pro bono , you'll pay a fee (a transaction fee to deploy it), and Ethereum miners (who run uniswap) skim transaction fees off of your token trades in perpetuity.

So clearly every token should have its own exchange.

I didn't say that. I'm saying that it's another unanticipated burden of building out a crypto project, which is what this twitter thread is going on about.

EDIT: Also, sure, why not own the exchange too if you can swing it? Less middlemen taking a cut from your revenue.

Re: Starting a crypto project

#230

Post by nwiswell »

grey-area wrote: post #58
jcbrand wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptography is not web tech.

This website is being served to you using cryptography right now (tls). I took web tech to mean the technology used to serve the web - the differences with cryptocurrencies are manifold, the principal one being that billions of people use the web every day to perform important functions, compared to cryptocurrencies where most users are simply speculating on prices.

I think GP's point is this:

1) You cannot have cryptocurrency without the web, so it is web tech.

2) Computational cryptography long predates the web. It would be more accurate to say "the web is cryptography tech", if anything.

Post reply on HN