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FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

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Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#221
A lot of people here define ADD differently, they say it's this or it's that. But the truth is ADD will manifest differently for each person. The core characteristic is being chronically understimulated. People with ADD have difficulty focussing on things that aren't very stimulating for them. They will still be able to focus, sometimes very intensely (hyperfocus) on things that do stimulate them. Sometimes there is hyperactivity (an attempt to stimulate themselves) involved, but not always.

It's very real and stimulant medication, although it's not perfect, helps a lot of people.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right. I didn’t like that bit of my comment, and was in the process of lopping it off when you were composing your reply. Apologies for not getting the edit done in time. Mostly I’m alarmed that so many parents are happy to put their small children on a lifetime supply of medicine for something that’s not immediately life threatening.

ADHD medication is perfectly safe and not addictive (at prescribed doses). If you don't want to take it, just don't do it. Since the US makes it so hard to get (you have to renew your prescription every month) it's actually very likely you'll stop it.

For some values of “perfectly safe”.

From TFA: Qelbree "may increase suicidal thoughts and actions in some children with ADHD, especially within the first few months of treatment or when the dose is changed,"

https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/home/topics/adhd/stronger-...

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe zero discipline and/or work ethic are disorders? do you believe in the concept if mental health at all?

Absolutely. I generally believe that the way behavioral patterns emerge is not instant, and therefore the way you get out cannot be instant. In other words, the only way out of the darkness is walking back through the exact path you came from. It takes a long time of not focusing on daily practice and discipline to get to the point where you don’t realize you need to put in at least a few hours of studying per day. I…

You might find some mileage reading Behavior: The Control of Perception, which presents a hierarchical control system as a model of human behavior. We act to control our perceptions. From this model some interesting things can be derived based on control theory, like that some disturbances are too large to be overcome (trivial example, hold your hand out level, add an object to it and watch the control system output of your muscles react to the disturbance, add a very heavy object to it), the speed at which the system can react to a disturbance is limited by the speed at which the system can perceive the disturbance, and that lower level systems act faster than higher level ones which have to form higher level perceptions from a composite of lower level ones. (Beliefs don't come into the author's model until the 8th of 9 levels -- and of course changing beliefs is also a lot harder than rotating your wrist (level 3). Also our low level musculature is capable of much higher response rates mechanically yet is limited by perception speeds.)

I'm sympathetic to your argument, but I think it falls on deaf ears for those who need to understand it. There is indeed an issue with "normies" who don't have such extreme challenges and can't imagine them in that they tend to set the policies, but the non-normies arguing with you about how drugs are absolutely necessary either ignore or fight by mischaracterizing other non-normies who have experienced such challenges, yes even at extreme levels, and understand, and nevertheless successfully thought their way out of them. Or at least well enough out of them that they have a satisfying life, and sometimes with more "just happened/got older" mystery than conscious thinking. But these two sets of non-normies form multiple crab bucket mentalities which makes communication difficult. The crabs in the bucket create additional obstacles to escaping the bucket and inevitably when one escapes he tends to look down on (if not resent) the ones still in the bucket, while the ones in the bucket have similar negative feelings for the escapee, even to the extent of thinking he can't imagine what it was like inside the bucket. As an analogy for another kind of crab bucket mentality that can happen, i.e. "there's nothing wrong with me/us", look up some deaf people's thoughts on hearing aids.

An attitude of "I thought myself into this way, I should be able to think myself out of it" is hard to internalize and harder to pull off. I'm not sure you can successfully argue it into someone. Especially someone who is using drugs to alleviate their situation has in some sense already given up, and perhaps rationally so -- there are effectively irreversible processes, if your walk into darkness included a fall down a cliff, you can't just "fall" to get back up, and if you get it into you to at least try becoming stronger and climbing back, you may find the cliff is just unclimbable after all. (Though there may be a way around, or a more climbable slope, that can at least get you incrementally closer even if you may never get back to where you were originally.)

I think your highlight on video games / other modern media is misguided, but there is something underlying it, which I'd summarize as simply that society is sick. A healthy society does a lot to alleviate the individual pressures described all over these threads, often preempts the need for individual strategies to deal with them, but a healthy society is not one just like ours but without games/YouTube/social media/normies controlling drug access/skyscrapers/[whatever one's particular axe to grind]. What to do then, to alleviate your pressures? Sometimes it's "nothing", they'll go away on their own. Sometimes you can make a go at changing society in a measurable way (though you'll probably just make things worse if you have any impact at all). And sometimes it's drugs, or an escape into games/studies/work/farming, or therapy, or religion, or crafting your own philosophy... I don't see a universal answer. I dislike it when people suggest there is one without solid data, whether that's "more drugs!" or "just Be Well!". On the other hand it's important to look at data and recognize when highly effective treatments do exist for lots of things -- vaccines for instance, or for an obese person rather than "put the cookie down!" (were it so easy they probably wouldn't have gotten that way) it's more useful to point at keto. (Still a "horse led to water..." effect there that may have to be addressed first, but a less intensive one, as you don't have to feel starved. Calling the effect an "executive function disorder" may be useful in having a fancy label for the phenomenon, I prefer "akrasia", but focusing on the label too much risks conflating the map with the territory.)

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#224
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this with the observation that seemingly every single child in the United States is diagnosed with this condition and prescribed drugs to treat it? Watching from Europe, where roughly nobody is diagnosed with it nor prescribed drugs to treat it, I’m always baffled, fascinated and horrified watching Americans talk about it.

I heavily suspect that it's overdiagnosed in the US, but heavily underdiagnosed in the EU. I have adult ADHD, and even though I tried to get help when I was turning 20 and started to fail university (I had an average of 1.3 for the classes that I did finnish, I just couldn't commit to anything) it took me 3 years until I got a diagnosis (due to ridiculously long waiting times for doctors appointments). In the end I o…

> due to ridiculously long waiting times for doctors appointments

This is amazing to me. I've never seen as bad of a situation as with neurologists/psychiatrists. I called some a while ago and it was essentially either "we don't do any new patients" or "yeah, we have a wait list, if a spot opens up, we'll call everyone and the first person to answer gets it; expect it to take half a year though". Unless it's an emergency, you just won't even get to see a doctor.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#225
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this with the observation that seemingly every single child in the United States is diagnosed with this condition and prescribed drugs to treat it? Watching from Europe, where roughly nobody is diagnosed with it nor prescribed drugs to treat it, I’m always baffled, fascinated and horrified watching Americans talk about it.

I heavily suspect that it's overdiagnosed in the US, but heavily underdiagnosed in the EU. I have adult ADHD, and even though I tried to get help when I was turning 20 and started to fail university (I had an average of 1.3 for the classes that I did finnish, I just couldn't commit to anything) it took me 3 years until I got a diagnosis (due to ridiculously long waiting times for doctors appointments). In the end I o…

Neurologist was the one me try adderall. I have autoimmune disorder Sjogrens, but didn’t know it at the time. At time it felt like he was trying random things to see what helped.

It was amazing for focus and energy. Enough that I could work for a time.

Course it left me in horrific agony most of the time.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this with the observation that seemingly every single child in the United States is diagnosed with this condition and prescribed drugs to treat it? Watching from Europe, where roughly nobody is diagnosed with it nor prescribed drugs to treat it, I’m always baffled, fascinated and horrified watching Americans talk about it.

you’re insinuating that adhd (or, executive functions disorders) don’t exist. 1. there is lots of evidence showing that “something” is wrong with lots of peoples executive functions and that this observed problem is hereditary. 2. this is pretty insensitive. everybody does have these symptoms to some extent as you executive functions can’t be running 100% all the time. just like everyone has varying degrees of sight.…

Growing up my mom was often impossible to understand. She would change topics 3 times in a single sentence.

Basically every child and grandchild has been diagnosed with ADHD, or really needs to get tested.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#227

Seems that lots of people only think ADHD people have a hard time paying attention. If it was that simple I would be so happy. Here are just a few of the things I struggle with. - Will power. People with ADHD struggle sooooo much with will power. It’s a constant struggle with everything in life and really wears you down. - Constantly putting on a fake front pretending you don’t have ADHD. - Rejection sensitivity - Fe…

How do you reconcile this with the observation that seemingly every single child in the United States is diagnosed with this condition and prescribed drugs to treat it? Watching from Europe, where roughly nobody is diagnosed with it nor prescribed drugs to treat it, I’m always baffled, fascinated and horrified watching Americans talk about it.

Just because everyone sneezes doesn't mean hay fever doesn't exist.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#228

If you're considering taking drugs for ADHD or giving them to your child, I highly recommend reading into Fen-Phen (1) and other popular, contested drugs. Fen-Phen was a drug marketed to housewives in the 70s that promised weight loss and increased energy. My grandma suffered heart issues later in life due to it. It's since had 13B in settlements brought against it. Purdue Pharma will likely see 10B+ in settlements b…

You make some good points here, but it's important to avoid the false dichotomy that medication is either good for everyone or always scary and dangerous. Stimulants for ADHD have a long history of use (Ritalin's been approved for medical use since 1955!), and there's lots of scientific literature indicating it can have a variety of long-term benefits for people with ADHD. That said, no two people are the same, and t…

You're confused on some basic science.

Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) is a lysine molecule bonded to a Dexedrine molecule. An equivalent dose of Lisdexamfetamine weighs twice as much (263.38 g/mol) as dextroamphetamine (135.21 g/mol)

Additionally, the body needs to digest the lysine before the dexedrine can cross the blood brain barrier. That slows down absorption, and means an equivalent dose has a lower peak concentration in the body, too.

So your 'monstrous' 70mg Vyvanse example is actually 35mg of amphetamine, dosed over several hours.

anyway, your point stands! only wanted to offer so pointers on your supporting info. If you want to talk about monstrous doses, look into "Mydayis"

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#229

If you're considering taking drugs for ADHD or giving them to your child, I highly recommend reading into Fen-Phen (1) and other popular, contested drugs. Fen-Phen was a drug marketed to housewives in the 70s that promised weight loss and increased energy. My grandma suffered heart issues later in life due to it. It's since had 13B in settlements brought against it. Purdue Pharma will likely see 10B+ in settlements b…

I've been on Adderall for almost 30 years, and I'm not seeing any heart issues.

Hi! I'm glad you're doing well on your medication. Can I ask, what have you done to make any possible issues visible?

I've heard a few scary stories from people about long-term adderall usage weakening their heart muscle but they are/were not particularly healthy individuals

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s by intention.

Boys are intentionally misdiagnosed with ADHD to give medication to alter their behaviour?

No.

It's more about people not wanting to bother to deal with the nature of most boys.

Rowdy, inquisitive, can't sit still.

These are all traits that for the most part -- make one a good person later in life. Now most teachers just can't deal with them and label them as "toxic" that requires medication.

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