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Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

economist.com

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Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#221

Post by endisneigh »

esja wrote: post #210
endisneigh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're stating that there exists teaching methods that somehow benefit women, and not men as a function of their gender. That's an extraordinary claim and requires evidence. You can't assert your claim is true and look at the article to justify the original claim that you're asserting to begin with.

Sorry, what? I gave an example of a teaching method which creates difficulties for boys relative to girls. You agreed boys have trouble with it. What is left to discuss?

Boys having trouble with a teaching method does not mean said teaching method is inherently discriminatory towards boys nor does it mean that its favorable towards girls. Do you not understand? I'm sorry if I'm not being clear. Nothing you have said has illustrated things being somehow favorable to girls.

One group of individual doing better at something does not mean the thing is favorable towards the group.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#222

Post by endisneigh »

imtringued wrote: post #215
endisneigh wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this explains why women are capable of following these rules and men are not. Are you saying men are biologically predisposed to not follow such simple rules?

No, it sounds like female teachers make rules that are easy for female students to follow. Meanwhile some boys simply don't like the rules and thus don't follow them.

Yes I've seen this comment many, many times. Where's the proof? Women crush men in college (see link below) yet most professors are men. People are just spouting unsupported nonsense. Heck my link understates the difference as it is old.

https://theop.princeton.edu/reports/wp/ANNALS_Conger,Long_Ma...

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#223

Post by del_operator »

Interesting, I wonder how skewed my perspective of high school was by finding a community college high school hybrid program that gave me freedom and access to better electives. It didn’t hurt that community college tutoring was a huge bonus: provided hours of free tutoring per course and then rewarded with opportunities to get paid tutoring the subject if I did well. Meeting older community college students through tutoring was also very formative. Tutoring money as a 15/16 year old helped my independence and motivation.

Meanwhile, I could have easily dropped out, parents even suggested I could given the strain of me getting me to school freshman year similar male peers did at 13/14, so just I lived with friends and couch surfed through all of HS. As a youngster though I did not show much academic connection and was suspended each week in a charter school, failing 2nd grade, but never going to 4th grade after switching schools. After a parent teacher conference where my mom embarrassingly tried to fight my teacher I realized things might go easier if I took time after school or during lunch to just wrap up my homework. Through middle school the boys and girls club created an atmosphere where I could continue that behavior and get access to computers and printers for written assignments. It was still a hassle though. Without a few key teachers in middle school I probably also wouldn’t have kicked a bad habit of ditching school.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#224

Post by ku-man »

asdff wrote: post #103
dekhn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many subfields of biology, women have achieved numerical parity at all levels (IE, there are roughly 50% women in entry and leadership positions). It seems like some highly quantitative fields which have traditionally been male-dominated (CS, physics) may very well be practicing some sort of entry discrimination. It's unclear what the full set of contributing factors are.

I think the training environment at the undergraduate level is still toxic for women. I graduated 4 years ago, and while I wasn't in the CS program I had a female friend who was and she often lamented how isolating that program could be. This was a huge program at a huge school (50k undergrad), yet she was often one of only a few women in the program, and as she progressed she became even more of a minority as others…

When you say engineering, you are referring to actual engineering right?, e.g. civil, mechanical, etc

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#225

Post by imtringued »

spaniard89277 wrote: post #29
endisneigh wrote: post #2

How is it possible that girls perform better academically (in 2015) yet are under represented in the top tier of jobs? Either women have no interest in money, academic skills have no bearing in getting high paying jobs, or discrimination is more prevalent then you’d think. I suppose all three could be true.

Having Babies. Really, being a mother is what skews most stats about women on money issues. There has been policymaking about this in a bunch of european countries, and if they are released from financial constrains (handouts, public housing, whatever) they seem to double down on it. Let's face it, working, for most people, is something you do out of necessity. Why do we really expect women to have a similar behaviou…

Before women were allowed to work the few women that did pursue higher education were basically expected to marry immediately after graduation. There was absolutely zero expectation that you would work a job relevant to your education because you were supposed to be a housewife who is busy with her kids. The biological aspect is probably the biggest driving force.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#226

Post by frongpik »

endisneigh wrote: post #2

How is it possible that girls perform better academically (in 2015) yet are under represented in the top tier of jobs? Either women have no interest in money, academic skills have no bearing in getting high paying jobs, or discrimination is more prevalent then you’d think. I suppose all three could be true.

Academic grades measure skills that are only applicable at entry level jobs that are about following simple known rules. I knew many female students in school and college that got top marks on every subject, and yet they were mediocre in real life and never achieved much 10 years after graduation. I think that's precisely because their patience to follow silly rules didn't help them to compete in the world where there are no rules. On the other hand, I also knew many guys from the same classes who absolutely sucked at every subject except one or two where they shined and they have made impressive careers.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#227

Post by dominotw »

bb611 wrote: post #167
throwaway53086 wrote: post #31

Anyone with young boys and girls will notice that girls are much more likely to obey rules and instructions. A lot of doing well in school is about following rules and instructions, and it seems pretty natural that girls will do better. Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. It seems natural that they'd construct a system that's more suited for females t…

In the US, there's a significant gender gap in administration, especially above the school leader level. Also, larger schools (middle, high) are more likely to be run by men than woman.

> run by

what do you mean by this ?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#228

Post by twgp123 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #207
twgp123 wrote: post #180

Throwaway because this is one of the data points you are required to ignore in polite society. Girls receive better grades until you blind the teachers. Teachers are biased in favor of girls, maybe because their behavior is better. The effect of biased grading is enormous and a huge disadvantage to our boys. > Gender-biased grading accounts for 21 percent of boys falling behind girls in math during middle school. [1]…

Doesn’t that mean that 79% of the difference is not due to bias? So boys would still be behind girls even if the bias didn’t exist. Or am I misunderstanding this?

Tables 1-6 show you the actual results on the page labeled 40 (PDF page 42) and the page prior shows actual numbers.

In blinded effects, boys overperform in math and underperform in literacy. In non-blinded effects, boys underperform everywhere.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#229

Post by jimbokun »

endisneigh wrote: post #72
marklubi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a fourth explanation... The vast majority of teachers are female, so maybe their teaching methods are favorable to girls

I suppose this is possible - how exactly do you think teaching methods are more favorable to girls compared to boys?

Teachers grade boys more harshly than girls:

https://mitili.mit.edu/sites/default/files/project-documents...

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#230

Post by tester756 »

visarga wrote: post #137
itronitron wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performing well academically usually means that the student is good at at completing assignments in a way that aligns with the teachers grading rubric. I think boys have a certain contempt for that for a variety of reasons (at least mine do) so they focus their attention on how to work around the system, which probably yields an advantage later in the workplace.

Like when you solve the arithmetic problem with algebra and the teacher says it's wrong because you didn't use the official method?

on the test that's testing whether you're proficent with _official method_?

or maybe because your _official method_ was "under some assumptions" or "by guessing that"

I've heard that complain countless times from friends and I think always the reason was that it wasn't formally correct.

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