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Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

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Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. You are attacking the wrong target. It's the government that's broken. This kind of outrage can happen just as easily with pencil and paper. The root cause is the lack of accountability and desire to make the government functio…

Except software allows a scale and efficiency that is impossible with pencil and paper while also creating an ideal scapegoat. Software is being used to avoid accountability at a scale much greater than what was possible with manual process.

[deleted]

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#222
post #20

This is an outrage. It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. Somehow software has become the ultimate vehicle for bureaucratic violence. Software is simultaneously infallible and the perfect scapegoat. The inmate who lost their phone privileges for 30 days is an example…

> It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. You are attacking the wrong target. It's the government that's broken. This kind of outrage can happen just as easily with pencil and paper. The root cause is the lack of accountability and desire to make the government functio…

But they can be undone with pencil and paper too. The footgun of automation here can only be undone with either a really good patch (git commit -m 'finally finally works for real this time') or a lot of pencil and paper work that's slower than the processes that caused the problem.

I'll note that this isn't the first time that people have said "well its the algorithm" when they were responsible. The example that springs to mind is bail risk assessments. You're very correct in that there are people making real decisions that are very cruel here. The machines give them something to hide behind.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re overlooking something else. America has an unbelievable number of prisoners, which makes more careful and humane management effectively impossible. Estimates are that we’ve got about 2% of the US population in prison or somewhere else in the correctional system (pre-trial detention, probation, parole, etc.), the labor required to treat these people like humans isn’t available. And arguably by the point where y…

> America has an unbelievable number of prisoners, which makes more careful and humane management effectively impossible. But that is such a cop out... America has the number of prisoners it has by choice, not due to some inexorable condition which differentiates it from other developed nations.

> But that is such a cop out... America has the number of prisoners it has by choice, not due to some inexorable condition which differentiates it from other developed nations.

> And arguably by the point where you’re locking that many people up, as a society that might be the point.

I already covered that in my original post, please don’t snark over things that were already pointed out.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#225
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there’s penal consequences for bad software, you can bet that the development cost will easily 10x overnight.

I wouldn’t work on such software.

You would for 10x the salary.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#226
post #73
post #20

This is an outrage. It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. Somehow software has become the ultimate vehicle for bureaucratic violence. Software is simultaneously infallible and the perfect scapegoat. The inmate who lost their phone privileges for 30 days is an example…

Software is just a tool, it can be used to build good or bad things. It would be hard to see this in e.g. Scandinavian countries, where incarceration is seen as rehabilitative rather than punitive. In the US, racial discrimination, free market extremism along with "tough on crime" laws have created unimaginably cruel systems; together with private prisons, the goal has been on cutting costs rather than rehabilitating…

I don't think tools cancel themselves out, and I suspect that nothing "is just" anything.

Even if ideas like "the medium is the message" are partially true and then just partially applicable, that should give us pause when we try to cross out tools in our morality equations.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know exactly how to fix it. Our cowardly politicians and toothless regulatory agencies are not up for the challenge. For every piece of software that can directly and materially harm someone's life like this, there should be a chain of responsibility. And within that chain, there should be legal recourse and, in most cases, penal consequences, especially in the case of inadequate software quality/testing/validatio…

It’s not the software makers who are committing the crimes. It’s the people abdicating responsibility to software. You can’t wipe your hands of releasing a prisoner on schedule by delegation that to software. The software can help you with your task, but if it’s brought to your attention that there’s a mistake, your failure to promptly fix it is on you.

It's both. Look at the amount of unnecessary waste created by the abysmal Android update policy.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#228
post #20

This is an outrage. It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. Somehow software has become the ultimate vehicle for bureaucratic violence. Software is simultaneously infallible and the perfect scapegoat. The inmate who lost their phone privileges for 30 days is an example…

The following is very illuminating:

> Instead of fixing the bug, department sources said employees are attempting to identify qualifying inmates manually... But sources say the department isn’t even scratching the surface of the entire number of eligible inmates. “The only prisoners that are getting into programming are the squeaky wheels,” a source said, “the ones who already know they qualify or people who have family members on the outside advocating for them.”

> In the meantime, Lamoreaux confirmed the “data is being calculated manually and then entered into the system.” Department sources said this means “someone is sitting there crunching numbers with a calculator and interpreting how each of the new laws that have been passed would impact an inmate.” “It makes me sick,” one source said, noting that even the most diligent employees are capable of making math errors that could result in additional months or years in prison for an inmate. “What the hell are we doing here? People’s lives are at stake.”

Comments like yours seem to glorify a pre-software world filled with manual entry. The reality is that manual entry is even more error-prone, bias-prone, with more people falling through the cracks.

If nothing else, software can be uniformly applied at a mass scale, and audited for any and all bugs. And faulty software can be exposed through leaks like the above, to expose and fix systemic problems. Whereas a world of manual entry simply ignores vast numbers of errors and biases which are extremely hard to detect/prove, and even then, can simply be scapegoated with some unlucky individuals, without any effort to fix systemically.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#229
post #20

This is an outrage. It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. Somehow software has become the ultimate vehicle for bureaucratic violence. Software is simultaneously infallible and the perfect scapegoat. The inmate who lost their phone privileges for 30 days is an example…

There is plenty of useful software. For example: scientific software.

That's true, and I am not arguing that useful software does not exist. Instead, a lot of energy producing software is often not useful, or useful in perverse ways.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#230
post #20

This is an outrage. It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. Somehow software has become the ultimate vehicle for bureaucratic violence. Software is simultaneously infallible and the perfect scapegoat. The inmate who lost their phone privileges for 30 days is an example…

We know exactly how to fix it. Our cowardly politicians and toothless regulatory agencies are not up for the challenge. For every piece of software that can directly and materially harm someone's life like this, there should be a chain of responsibility. And within that chain, there should be legal recourse and, in most cases, penal consequences, especially in the case of inadequate software quality/testing/validatio…

> And within that chain, there should be legal > recourse and, in most cases, penal consequences,

Wikipedia says, "Under common law, false imprisonment is both a crime and a tort".

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