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Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

wsj.com

221–230 of 381 posts

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#221
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu, if you grant that different strains count.

Influenza? The one which kills thousands of people every year despite widespread vaccination?

Why would you respond like this without accounting for the rest of my very short comment?

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out that someone is not an expert at something is not an ad hominem.

Arguing against someone's position by simply stating (truthfully or not) that they are not an expert is textbook ad hominem .

In the situation where the argument being put forward relies on the explicitly or implicitly stated expertise of the orator - such as an article which says "Take heed of my opinion of the important medical factors here, for I am a doctor" - contending that said orator doesn't have that expertise is entirely valid, and not ad hominem. Ad hominem is such when the attack on the orator is orthogonal to their argument.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#223
post #140

I'm not sure how much stock I would put into this type of claim in an opinion article, but anecdotally, I've been tracking the daily new cases and percent positive in my area very closely for a while. Especially in the last couple of weeks the percent positive & new cases has fallen dramatically. Seemingly for no good reason. In my state, we are now consistently seeing percent positive less than 10%. After the holida…

It's important to remember that the positivity rate is a measure of how much testing you're doing, not a measure of how much virus is around. Unless you're reading articles about the politics of rapid tests or the like, you should mostly just ignore the pos rate, it doesn't tell you anything useful otherwise.

I think you may have this backwards? As testing rates increase, we would expect the positivity rate to go down, as you are now testing more people who have never contracted COVID. The more testing we're doing, the more we expect the positivity rate to approach the actual percentage of infected folks.

If you're only testing people in hospitals and reporting systems, you're going to have a much higher positivity rate.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the old adage of "fear sells"? Do doomsday predictions no longer generate clicks?

I agree that "fear sells". Usually there is a "them" to be afraid of. Not sure the media has figured out who we're supposed to be afraid of in this pandemic.

The unmasked? Those with differing opinions on the pandemic? Fellow shoppers? People outside your immeadiate family circle? Consumers of non-essential services?

At this point the divisions have been potentially driven to a point where each individual is atomized. Of course that it is the extreme case, but you needn't look far if you are looking to personify the target of the fear campaign.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#225

I really don't think lockdowns have helped a ton in the US. Look at Florida's winter wave of Covid cases vs Massachusetts. The curves are basically identical, despite vastly different pandemic policies. In other countries yes, but in the USA, are there any real data points that can argue that states with strong lockdowns did better than states without? https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/massachusetts-co... h…

I don't think we should be giving hot takes on the pandemic with cherry-picked news articles. I knew someone that said COVID wasn't a big deal in March 2020 because 5% of people died on an isolated cruise ship. The curve may be similar, but unclear to conclude that lockdowns didn't affect absolute numbers. Compare Oregon and Washington vs Arizona and Utah. Also account for rural vs urban counties. Is it that controve…

Individual actions make a huge difference for an individual's risk level.

The lockdowns that each state imposed were largely ineffective at a macro level in my opinion.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#226
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty weird actually. The news desk for the WSJ is among the best out there. Their news stories tend to be really dry in a good way - full of facts and figures, with very little in the way of click bait hyperbole. Their subscriber model is all about business people who want the details and not opinion... Which then makes the opinion desk at the WSJ a real oddball. It's consistently right-leaning, sometimes to t…

IMO, the Financial Times is a good alternative to WSJ. Global perspective but still does deep dives into American issues; not owned by Murdoch; opinion desk not insane; soothing peach background color in both paper and online editions.

Not to mention the superb gardening column

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News firms in USA optimize for audience size. Most Americans would rather listen to Pollyanna bullshit than uncomfortable truth. So, the news firms mostly publish wishful thinking. According to some of these shallow beings, we were supposed to have "herd immunity" by last April. Here in the real world, it's still not clear that this concept is even possible with the covid virus.

What about the old adage of "fear sells"? Do doomsday predictions no longer generate clicks?

We've been subject to the fear-cannon for two decades. They had to sell many disastrous wars, and after all brown people are scary. A fatigue has set in. At this point they've turned the knob so far they're worried they may have broken it. They hype up tanker explosions and everybody starts googling "Tonkin Gulf". Significant numbers of Americans actually remember dumb advice they got from leading health officials an entire year ago. Now that we've had a 9/11 every day for a year, a new 9/11 won't land the same. If e.g. Xinjiang and Hong Kong were both leveled by atomic bombs tomorrow, the average American would change the channel. Popular news just doesn't have the effect it used to have; it's back to the drawing board for the media firms and their owners.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're acting like there were parts of the US in 100% lockdown vs 0% lockdown, when the difference is a lot more like 20% (max) vs 10%, and it's a lot harder to suss out any difference in result when the difference in practice is that small.

If lockdown explains most of the variance between Australia's 1k deaths and America's 500k deaths, then the difference between 10% and 20% lockdown should still be very visible.

Few relationships in the real world are linear. That is just an assumption that makes the math easier.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#229

" Amid the dire Covid warnings, one crucial fact has been largely ignored: Cases are down 77% over the past six weeks. " Yes, we are down to the level we were...last fall.

Or last July, depending on which spike you want to pick.

https://covidactnow.org/?s=1613556

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguing against someone's position by simply stating (truthfully or not) that they are not an expert is textbook ad hominem .

Arguing against their position by saying that they kick puppies is textbook ad hominem. Saying that they are not an expert isn't a strong argument, but it is a valid criticism.

It isn't the same as invalidating the argument. It doesn't approach the substance of what was presented. There is no substance to the objection.

Assertion: "That apple will fall on your head"

Appeal to authority: "You're not a physicist! Show me your PHD."

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