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The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

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Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#221

Post by eightysixfour »

colechristensen wrote: post #120
ascagnel_ wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of this comes from the Reagan-era idea of "welfare queens" -- that because the idea of "government handouts" are so enticing, people will cheat the system to get them. There are two issues with this: - "government handouts" and a reliance on welfare are typically a symptom, not a root cause, of an ailing society -- there are bigger issues at play around wealth and ownership if a large segment of the population…

I likewise know someone who intentionally makes as little money as possible in order to take advantage of state support program. Or to be more accurate, makes as much money as possible under the various limits for benefits while living in a comfortable (essentially inherited) situation. This is a person with high education, without any major disability or impediment to working, they just choose not to work because th…

When I have the discussion about safety nets the topic of these types of people come up regularly where conservatives tend to say they're mooches and a drain on society and liberals tend to say they're an uncommon edge case. I think they're both arguing about the wrong thing.

I think this is the perfect outcome for the type of person who wants to live their life that way because the alternative, working somewhere, means they will be the worst coworker or employee you have ever had. They'll do just enough to not be fired and never enough to actually be worth their paycheck, walking the line and wasting resources that could be spent elsewhere. I've worked with this person and they destroy team morale and productivity without even trying, they're not bad people and I harbor no ill-will towards them, they just don't want to be there and have very few other options in our society.

While I think we must take care not to create too much of incentive for this lifestyle, I will happily pay money out of my paycheck to not have to work with those that prefer it.

Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#223

Post by vlovich123 »

geophile wrote: post #33
vlovich123 wrote: post #22

> Late last month, a judge dismissed the charge as groundless, after which the local district attorney vowed to present the matter to a grand jury Considering that grand juries would indict a ham sandwhich, this seems like the prosecutor is reaching just to prolong the process and pain this doctor is going through. Even assuming the best case argument for the prosecutor that he did “steal it”, he vaccinated 10 people…

While this case is quite bizarre, giving doses to random people rather than having the vaccine go bad is pretty common, and makes sense. Except for one thing: If I am the lucky recipient of this vaccine, ahead of schedule (since I am under 75 and have no comorbidities), then what about the second dose? Do I have to get lucky a second time, the right amount of time after my first dose? (My understanding is that there…

I don't think anyone really has any formal policies or if there are they probably vary drastically based on your municipality (the US healthcare system is a mess). The data does indicate that even 1 dose gives you some immunity, just not the 95%. That's why there's been a big push from some scientific corners to just get needles in arms to inoculate as many people as people with some immunity & worry about making sure optimal 2nd shot later (broad herd immunity with less efficacy vs smaller more effective herd immunity).

Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#224

Post by valarauko »

Grustaf wrote: post #122
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a specific alternative option you have in mind? The article mentions that he tried vaccinating everyone in the clinic and called the county to ask; I'm legitimately unsure what else he could have done to find people.

Obviously the best alternative is to make sure to vaccinate an even multiple of 10 people before you close. So if you're about to close, just finished a vial and a single person shows up, then don't open a new vial and put yourself in the position where you have to run around and find patients.

That's how the appointments are given out, but not everybody shows up.

For my second shot, I drove out 30 miles in a snowstorm, and waited two hours in line. Other people probably waited longer. Should the last couple of people be turned away after waiting 2 hours because there aren't neat multiples of 10 at closing time? Your solution, while reasonable, optimizes vaccinate utilization but at incredible cost to an unfortunate few.

Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#225

Post by whoisburbansky »

ivanbakel wrote: post #174
h_anna_h wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in bypassing policy Citation needed please, the article said that he followed the policy of not letting the vaccine go to waste.

The article says that he reports following the policy as he understood it. He also reports that he was later told he should have disposed of the vaccine or returned it, rather than caring about wastage. The county prosecutor maintains that policy directed him to act differently, since that is the basis of her case against him. So, from the prosecutor's perspective, he bypassed policy. Since I'm making a point about t…

The case has been thrown out, which gives you a sense of how ridiculous the prosecutors position was. Quoting the Harris County judge who threw it out,

> In the number of words usually taken to describe an allegation of retail shoplifting, the State attempts, for the first time, to criminalize a doctor’s documented administration of vaccine doses during a public health emergency,” Bynum wrote in his order, adding the prosecutor’s affidavit was “riddled with sloppiness and errors.”

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/crime/am...

Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#226

Post by acover »

nickpp wrote: post #198

Over and over again we re-learn that the single proven way to distribute scarce resources is the free market. Anything else we tried led to abuses, aberrations, waste and in the end fewer people gaining access to that resource. I have seen this in the planned economy I grew up in, which was unable to provide even toilet paper to its people - but it was ok, because we didn’t have any food either. Our blindness to the…

I don't think this is true. In emergencies we explicitly do not allow price gouging because it just doesn't work.

If it was a free market then the vaccine would cost 10k and few of those who benefit most would get it. That's not efficient or fair.

Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#227

Post by sudosysgen »

mumblemumble wrote: post #215
clairity wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, i understand your point, but again, that's literally a rounding error compared to other, much larger rent-seeking behaviors.

Sure. But that challenge smells of whataboutism. And it's also looking at the finger rather than where it's pointing. I could just as easily have picked on health care, for example, or housing assistance programs. But I'm not trying to write a book, here. I think the more interesting phenomenon here is that seeing the negative consequences of a largely fiscally conservative cause is bringing fiscal conservative thoug…

The above posters argument is very simple. These program's impact on inefficiency and rent seeking are négligeable. Their benefits aren't.

Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#228

Post by whoisburbansky »

lexicality wrote: post #35

> “Are you suggesting that there were too many Indian names in that group?” Dr. Gokal said he asked. > Exactly, he said he was told. Amazing. I wonder how much of the charges levied against him are a desperate attempt to avoid being sued for unfair dismissal

The charges levied against him are from the DA’s office. Bit of a stretch to imagine his employer personally reaching out to the DA to try to get cause for dismissal.

Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#229

Post by Wowfunhappy »

mc32 wrote: post #179
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may seem pointless, but it may be administratively simpler. Similar to how people with government jobs still pay taxes, even though their paychecks come from the government in the first place.

People with fed jobs are not so simple. Are they married, does the partner work outside the fed gov., do they have a second job, etc. But I suppose in principle you could pay them net and make adjustments at tax time. It’s okay by me.

I'd posit that people with low-incomes are similarly complex—perhaps less-so, but enough. Are they married, how many children do they have, etc.

Re: The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired

#230

Post by chefkoch »

BowBun wrote: post #203
ascagnel_ wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of this comes from the Reagan-era idea of "welfare queens" -- that because the idea of "government handouts" are so enticing, people will cheat the system to get them. There are two issues with this: - "government handouts" and a reliance on welfare are typically a symptom, not a root cause, of an ailing society -- there are bigger issues at play around wealth and ownership if a large segment of the population…

I'm generally for social welfare programs, however the idea of "welfare queens (and kings)" is NOT fiction. I come from Belgium which has this problem quite notoriously. It is quite common for people to be abusing the social programs to stay unemployed and make more income than blue-collar workers. Like you allude to, I think we need to look more deeply to address this issue - why are people satisfied doing nothing a…

If you get more money from welfare than from work iguess you would be eligible for more support. I would be interested in a ranking where gouvernemnt subsedies (welfare, agriculture, infrastracture, defense etc.) are abused most. My guess is it's not welfare.
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