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18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

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Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you could interpret that comment as saying the virus "isn't real". Of course it's real. I also don't think it was "planned," nor did I imply that. But it's certainly being exploited for political ends.

Exploited how?

My answer to that would garner yet more downvotes, which I am not interested in receiving. I already get auto-downvoted by several accounts on every comment I make.

I assume you know the answer to the question you asked, and were just being argumentative, because the answer is quite obvious. But in case you really wanted to know, instead of answering directly, I'll point you to a few resources:

1) "For authoritarian-minded leaders, the coronavirus crisis is offering a convenient pretext to silence critics and consolidate power. Censorship in China and elsewhere has fed the pandemic, helping to turn a potentially containable threat into a global calamity. The health crisis will inevitably subside, but autocratic governments’ dangerous expansion of power may be one of the pandemic’s most enduring legacies." - https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/03/how-authoritarians-are-e...

2) "The outbreak of Covid-19 and subsequent pandemic has led to an alarming uptick in authoritarian behavior by governments across the globe, who are using the crisis to silence critics, an open letter signed by more than 500 former world leaders and Nobel Laureates claims." - https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritar...

3) "...as the crisis goes on, some leaders could order restrictive measures that make public health sense at the peak of the crisis and then extend them in the hope of quashing dissent once the disease declines....A harbinger of what is to come may have appeared in Hungary, where Prime Minister Viktor Orban asked parliament on 21 March to indefinitely extend a state of emergency that prescribes five-year prison sentences for those disseminating false information or obstructing the state’s crisis response." - https://www.crisisgroup.org/global/sb4-covid-19-and-conflict...

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#222
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

I think we could just stick with positivity rates and case numbers to figure that out, like we have been doing. Once the vaccines start working their magic, we’ll see it in those metrics. That way we don’t have to try and guess how infectious someone can still be after they have had the vaccine

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#223
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we can add the vaccinated and the recovered, yes? About 25 million have recovered so far. That puts us at about 12% 'immune'.

Every medical professional I know /am related to has indicated that getting covid only grants 90 days immunity. Across state lines, they all have said that herd immunity visa infection is impossible as it requires everyone to be infected within a three month span.

If getting the actual disease only results in 90 days of immunity, then will a vaccine do any better? Is there precident for immunity via vaccine being longer-lasting than immunity as a result of contracting the actual disease?

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#224
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll unlikely reach said number because over 50% of the population of the us is not interested in a vaccine because they do not view covid-19 as a disease much more risky than the flu. Facing this reality, the policy will probably be once everyone who wants it has had a chance to get it, things will or should move towards normal.

At some point, we have to let these people choose. You can only protect people from themselves to a certain degree Once the sane ones are vaccinated, open everything up and let nature take care of the dumb ones. If you insist on drinking gasoline, good luck

Don’t forget the collateral damage of vulnerable people that cannot take the vaccine for whatever reason. Australia just passed for ages 16 and up, no idea if people under that age with other conditions are SOL or if they’re allowed to bypass that restriction. Fortunately, the population here are generally pro-fax, I assume to the point where herd immunity is actually viable.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#225
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll unlikely reach said number because over 50% of the population of the us is not interested in a vaccine because they do not view covid-19 as a disease much more risky than the flu. Facing this reality, the policy will probably be once everyone who wants it has had a chance to get it, things will or should move towards normal.

At some point, we have to let these people choose. You can only protect people from themselves to a certain degree Once the sane ones are vaccinated, open everything up and let nature take care of the dumb ones. If you insist on drinking gasoline, good luck

The people who don't get the vaccine aren't just hurting themselves. We need herd immunity for people who can't take it, or for whom it won't benefit.

There are definitely people who may not benefit as much from the vaccine because they are immuno-compromised for example.

The only reason not to take it is if your doctor tells you not to. Unless they've told us not to for medical reasons, we should take it if we can get it, ASAP.

And I think pressuring people to take it is appropriate, given that it's not just them at risk.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/who-can-and-cant-safe...

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll unlikely reach said number because over 50% of the population of the us is not interested in a vaccine because they do not view covid-19 as a disease much more risky than the flu. Facing this reality, the policy will probably be once everyone who wants it has had a chance to get it, things will or should move towards normal.

For large portion of the population, it isn't. 99.9+% for many demographics. I'm not interested in it personally, as one of my dad's coworkers got Bell's palsy from the vaccine. Given my age and risk profile, the vaccine isn't worth it.

Nevermind the people who you infect and kill, you can’t be blamed for that, right?

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#227
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fauci was never dishonest. That was Trump trying to shift the blame to him. Watch the original clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=youtu.be He literally said that the reason he is advising against masks was because he was worried about shortages.

The message was definitely lost along the way when US surgeon general tweeted that masks wasn't effective against covid. At best, they are grossly incompetent at communicating with the public. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12447444277357813... https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12440202923658158...

Your first link says not to unless you're sick, implying that they thought they were useful for people with the virus. The second link literally says that having supplies for healthcare workers was the main impetus for saying this.

This has stood up remarkably well, a year on we know that masks are mostly effective to prevent people spreading the virus and not to prevent contracting it and we know much more about how readily it spreads asymptomatically.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#228
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

Personally, I am probably going to keep wearing a mask in public for privacy reasons.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#229
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like your point is probably important somehow. Could you make it with more sensitivity and less indignant contrarianism? Remember that you're replying to someone who has just lost a loved one !

Someone who in their grief also wishes me suffering and an agonizing death, perhaps as revenge: > I wish every single one of them could experience the fear my grandfather did. Stuck in a bed, unable to walk, waiting for a plague to take them as their fellow patients succumb one by one. Sensitivity is a nice-to-have, but the goal right now is averting outright war. If none of these bubbles can be cracked open, and eve…

Please note I specifically said I wish they could experience the fear. It is not a wish for anyone to experience death, let alone a painful one.

People rarely have to confront the extent of the results of their actions and as a result don't really think on those terms. Personal experience is an effective, often painful teacher.

I can't claim to know your entire perspective, but from the outside, refusing to accept a temporary, minor inconvenience to one's life so we can reduce how many people have to die an agonizing death seems ... selfish, at best.

I myself am a person who suffers from depression issues that have only been magnified by isolation. And yet here I am, following the guidelines as best I can. I'm not at much of a risk of dying from COVID, but if I got it and infected someone who ended up dying from it - I'd never forgive myself.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#230
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

When there's enough people vaccinated for herd immunity so there isn't community spread. Sadly it didn't have to be this bad. Compare the US to New Zealand.

The US has cities with more people than New Zealand. Comparing it to Europe seems more fair because both have a mixture of policies between regions, more similar populations, neither is an island, and they're both economically developed.
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