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Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#221

Post by r00fus »

gregkerzhner wrote: post #27
strict9 wrote: post #7

I rarely drive, but can't wait to own one. Where I live (and for a lot of people who live in cities) there is only on-street parking. Will be interesting to see how increased electric vehicle ownership might happen for people without a garage or designated parking.

This. Curios to hear about people's experiences owning an EV without access to a charger at home.

Some workplaces (like mine) offer charging (mostly L2) for employees. Makes commuting via EV more feasible. I mean, honestly, it's one of the only reasons I need a car.

Of course, as I haven't had to go in for the past 10 months due to shelter in place - I charge like 1/week or less as opposed to daily.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#222

Post by cptskippy »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #150
sandworm101 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And charging stations are, of course, absolutely dirt cheap to build relative to fuel stations. Really? A normal gas station can handle around 100 cars per hour using a handful of pumps and is refueled by daily deliveries from a big truck. Simple. An electric charge point capable of that will require a massive amount of electricity, electricity delivered over wires. Look into how much it costs to run such a servic…

This why a lot of stations are now moving to adding batteries to meet peak demand. Also if you have lots of stalls of cars charing to 100%, you can steal some of their charge and route to someone who needs to get to 80% ASAP. Also, fast charge is very slowed down in cold climates and/or when you are reaching 80%.

> Also, fast charge is very slowed down in cold climates and/or when you are reaching 80%.

Some EVs with temperature management systems can precondition the battery for charging. This negates reduced charging speeds at extreme temperatures.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#223

Post by arkh »

dm319 wrote: post #3

The UK plan for no ICE vehicles to be sold by 2030 is fairly ambitious. I'm seeing more and more electric vehicles on the roads, but I think some regular customers will be disappointed by how poor the infrastructure is. Not only that electric chargers aren't as prevalent as they need to be, but the number of high-speed chargers are tiny (think a couple of locations per large city), but an even bigger problem is the h…

> no ICE vehicles

Even with chargers everywhere there will be a problem: we'll have to produce a lot more electricity. And when we start reading about possible blackouts in some countries in Europe due to environmental decisions 2030 feels like not far enough.

Solar and wind won't be enough. Nuclear suffers from NIMBY. So what? We'll produce electricity from oil, coal and gaz? Awesome way to move the emission problem. Same method as moving production and recycling to Asia and Africa.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#224

Post by cptskippy »

jtaillon wrote: post #205
cptskippy wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flaw in your reasoning, and most people arguing against BEVs is they envision the demand for charging stations is going to be in any way similar to the demand for gas stations. A regular 120v charger can put 60 miles on an EV overnight which is more than enough for the average commute. I did this for 2 years with a 50 mile round-trip commute. I started each day with 100% charge on my Nissan Leaf, arrived home eac…

What do electron fumes smell like? :)

Ozone

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#225

Post by coding123 »

turtlebits wrote: post #178

Mass adoption won't happen until charging infrastructure improves dramatically. As a non-Tesla owner, I have had the worst experiences at fast charging stations - I'd say 70% of the time at Electrify America stations (they have the most fast charging coverage), I run into a charger that doesn't work and waste time moving my car and retrying another bay. (I've even experienced a station with 5 bays where none of them…

> a non-Tesla owner

I think you'll be in the minority.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#226

Post by 4b11b4 »

This explanation of the rate of electrification was somewhat compelling (I would like to hear arguments against):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2yvsmDvxvA

rough summary: electricity costs become negligible when (~2030) solar, wind, and storage prices all drop to a certain threshold

**note: the concept of "superpower" introduced in the featured video (need citation)

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#227

Post by [deleted] »

gambiting wrote: post #207
buran77 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are about the only way to comply except pure BEVs On paper. In reality [0][1] unless you drive all electric all or most of the time the actual, real life CO2 emissions are far worse. Because now you have an ICE engine that hauls around an extra battery and electric motor, occasionally inefficiently charging the battery by burning gasoline. Many (most?) PHEVs owners don't have charging at home (reason to buy hy…

I bought a PHEV a year ago and the fuel savings are enormous. I've been filling it up once every 3 months so far, most of my journeys are done in fully electric mode, and when they are not I'm averaging 100-150mpg. Charging at home is pretty easy, but I do have my own driveway which I realize a lot of people don't. But yes, UK company tax structure around them is absolutely broken. You can get one, get a massive tax…

[deleted]

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#228

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

tw04 wrote: post #157
fuoqi wrote: post #140

I wonder if electrical grids are really prepared for mass adoption of EV. For example, UK is already quite reliant on the HVDC link [0] from France. In 2016 it got damaged resulting in a reduced capacity, which has caused serious concerns at the time. And it's not only about power generation, it's also quite probable that a lot of existing power lines would have to be updated to satisfy a higher demand for electrical…

I've been trying to wrap my head around this as well. You look at the repeated rolling brown-outs that seem to happen in places like California every few years, and I wonder how throwing 10s of millions of cars that all need to charge at extremely high rates is going to be absorbed. Sure, SOME of those people might also install things like solar panels and batteries, but I just don't see how the math works right now.

Simple: most people charge at night.

Sure, fast charging will add some day-time demand, but it's not much. Cheap night-time pricing keeps the charging demand off-peak.

More even demand curves make generation more economical. It becomes trivial to upgrade distribution where needed.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#229

Post by rconti »

cabaalis wrote: post #203

Can someone who knows more about the subject that I do comment on the statement "electric powered vehicles are coal powered vehicles?" I'm seeing that in conservative circles.

Are these the same people pushing "clean coal?" If so, it shouldn't be a pejorative.

Anyway, it seems patently obvious that a massive coal power plant should be cleaner per unit of energy than a janky disposable ICE powerplant shoved under the hood of a cheap little mass-produced car.

I'm not sure it's entirely worth your time to engage with intellectually un-curious people not capable of thinking in shades of grey.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#230

Post by athms »

zizee wrote: post #153
fiftyfifty wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false dichotomy, we have to get away from thinking of charging stations like gas pumps. Charging stations can be everywhere: grocery stores, retail stores, office buildings, malls, just about any parking lot or parking garage, hotels, airport parking and on and on. Gas pumps have to have huge underground tanks, and they have to be regularly refilled by large tanker trucks, by their very nature they will be…

Excellent points. Also people seem to be forgetting a large percentage of people will be charging at home overnight, and will largely never need to charge their cars at places other than home.

Maybe for people that live in the suburbs and have disposable income to put in a charging station.
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