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In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

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Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#221
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kept spamming the same comment. Regarding crime, there is one obvious answer. Inequality. The US Gini coefficient has been going up for 3 decades, I think. The reduction effect from getting rid of leaded gasoline could only outweigh this for so long... Poor people commit more crimes and you're starting to have more and more poor people.

“It’s uniquely lead.” Maybe, but rates are back up decades after we banned lead. “Ok, well it’s uniquely the St. Louis police.” Nope, sorry. Rates are up everywhere. “Well then it’s just 2020! What a weird year!” Nope. Rates have been rising for years. “Ah, well then it’s obviously inequality.” Why do people think not only that there has to be an immediate and obvious explanation for this trend, but also that they kn…

I don't know but my money is on inequality. All the countries with high levels of inequality have this problem.

For example Eastern European countries generally have moderate to low inequality levels and low GDP per capita. South American countries have high to verify high inequality and comparable GDPs per capita. Eastern Europe is much safer statistically than South America.

Ignore this at your own peril...

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#222
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any proof for that platitude?

Yea tbh that quote never made much sense to me. Wouldn't the Congo or Somalia be a paradise if that were true? The whole thing hinges on the definition of Strong/Hard/Weak/Good and how you define them. For example who is stronger, a turn the other cheek reverend or an eye for an eye preacher?

In my experience the kind of people posting that quote are the strongman, eye for an eye type.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#223
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that 'aware' is rhetorically the same as 'terrified', and 'rational' just means 'act optimally', so it's implied.

I'm aware that at some point the Sun will expand and engulf Earth, but I'm not terrified of it.

> I'm aware that at some point the Sun will expand and engulf Earth, but I'm not terrified of it.

Mainly because you won't be there when it happens when it happens, but would you feel the same if you felt earthquakes, nuclear effluence spikes, droughts or landslides from the few times it rained, plus all the aforementioned calamity? It's a visceral feeling that you carry with you for the rest of your Life, and it manifests in different ways depending on the person one of the most prevalent being depression and anxiety as I've seen far too many succumb to alcholism, drug abuse and SSRIs just to cope with the antipathy and eventually apathy towards World around them.

That's what I (and many more like me endured in that period in CA) saw and lived while I lived there until my early 20s, so we adapted (as I'm multi-generational) and I personally sought to apply my skill-set to what I felt had the best chance of ensuring we as a Species transitioned to a sustainable system that spanned: Renewable and sustainable Ag, Farm to table seasonal cuisine, Energy (solar), EV, Currency/Monetary system (Bitcoin) and then I got stupidly ambitious and almost made it to SpaceX this year.

Again, you can take your placid (in my view monotonous and short sighted) and insular existence but the truth is I always wanted to live my young adult Life this way and I have inspired more to pick up where I left off. I wanted what I went through to be for something in order to be a part of something that helps us transition out of this horrid system that has devastated our ecosystem and now looking back on it all I know I did something right.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#224
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then came the police state and the party was over.

It sounds like the 80s were more fun. We had Miami Vice, MacGyver, The A-Team, Knight Rider, and Battlestar Galactica back then. And homes were still affordable places to live in.

Not in CA

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If cities have become more dangerous in recent years, people will notice and change their behavior. Dubious. Certainly, behavior is driven by perception of danger, but whether perception of danger generally tracks with actual danger or not is…less certain. I know for child abduction and child assaults by those outside of the family that has historically not been the case; and perceived danger has increased as media…

I stated that if cities become more dangerous, people will change their behavior. A case of people changing their behavior even though cities aren’t more dangerous isn’t really a counterexample. A valid counterexample would be a case of cities becoming more dangerous and people not changing their behavior.

> A case of people changing their behavior even though cities aren’t more dangerous isn’t really a counterexample

It wasn't presented as a counterexample, it was presented as grounds for doubting the mechanism for the effect you describe.

Increased danger -> increased perceived danger -> behavior which attempts to mitigate danger is a nice theory, but it relies on deltas in perceived danger corresponding to deltas in actual danger.

If deltas in perceived danger that manifestly do drive behavior are driven by processes that are independent of actual danger, your argument no longer makes sense.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automatic guns became regulated in the 1930s, and you need approval by the ATF to own them and they need to be registered. They're in a similar category as bombs, rocket launchers, and whatnot. They are strictly regulated and the government basically knows where each one is at all times. In 1986, they stopped accepting new registrations for automatic guns. So there's a fixed supply of legal automatic firearms that no…

> So there's a fixed supply of legal automatic firearms that normal people can own. Why do people want them? Is it just a hobby, or is there some utility I'm unware of?

The primary benefit of high rate of fire is hitting a single moving target. Machine guns used to be particularly common in air to air combat. When you are a school shooter or bank robber you actually don't want to waste your ammo like that. The downsides of reloading are by far stacked against you. A soldier can just go back to base and reload his guns but a robber whose magazines have run out will just see his targets flee and his only opportunity slip away.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#227
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that if you baselined how good or bad you thought humans were by the crime rates in the 80s, you'd come away thinking humans were way more violent than they are. I think the same holds for 2020 - if you assess human nature by how people act when they're in the midst of a global pandemic, you'd come to the same incorrect conclusion. Another way to put it is that much of our behavior is dictated by our env…

> I think the same holds for 2020 The homicide rate in St. Louis bottomed out in 2003 at a rate of 21.8 per 100k. By 2014 it had more than doubled to 49.9. By 2015 it had nearly tripled to 59.3 per 100k. (It’ll end this year in the 70s per 100k). The rates have been rising for a long time. It’s not just 2020. And the trend is similar in other cities. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_St._Louis

Homicides nationwide are well off of historic highs [1].

The Vox link you previously posted shows the large spike (+~30%) being 2020 related.

The 21.8/100k you cite for St Louis in 2003 was also abnormally and suspiciously low, as 2002 and 2004 were in the 30s/100k. I wouldn't baseline anything off a single local outlier that's 50% off from other years. Perhaps a statistical / data collection anomaly? You can see in 2004 the rate was about 35/100k, while in 2013 it was 38/100k, a scant change.

You can see that data in context within a chart in this NYT article from 2015 [2] which discusses some possible factors in St Louis' persistently high crime. 2014 and onwards is likely skewed considerably by the Ferguson unrest, and it sounds like St Louis might still be dealing with that alongside other factors.

Outside the local context, none of this data at a macro scale looks like the trend we see in the 70s-80s that the lead-crime hypothesis seeks to describe though. Crime nationwide has indeed been growing slightly since 2015... to hypothesize about why we're seeing this, I'd guess it's largely due to loss of opportunity and rising income inequality leading to poverty and desperation, which our recent economic policies have only been worsening. But I'm absolutely no expert in the subject, just trying to figure things out like you are.

[1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murd...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/11/us/st-louis-puzzles-over-...

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#228
post #145
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a leafy village in rural UK. But at one point in the early 90s my dad got an offer to move to SoCal and we went out, I remember visiting schools and stuff, but we never actually went ahead with the move. Apparently while we were there my dad witnessed the car in front of him being robbed at gunpoint, but decided perhaps that was a one off, don't tell the family, perhaps it's fine... then the exact same t…

It's sort of funny how you get used to things and normalize them, especially the violence that occurs in the US. I lived in Chicago for nearly a decade, much of it on the near west side, and it was normal to hear gunshots a few blocks away. Violent crime was normal - a pub restaurant I used to take my kids to along with other families, had a brutal murder where someone got their throat slit. And I wasn't living in a…

In rx soviet block saying "it's like Chicago" here when there was some sort of crime spree going on was very common and still is. Maybe because of old gangsters, not sure.

But it sure was exotic seeing American music coming and videos talking about murder and shooting like it's a cool thing.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#229
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 80s were a crime paradise.--drug gangs, mafia, wall st white collar crime, informercial scams, televangelist and cult scams --you name it, it all thrived in the 80s. All of which you saw in a 30 min episode of CHIPS, which aired in the 70s to the 80s, right? I'm not proud of these seedy days, in fact its something I think most of us are ashamed of entirely and would prefer to be solely known for tech, beaches a…

I guess you’re a subscriber to the famous quote (from Orson Welles, I believe) that goes something like “Italians saw centuries of wars and pestilence, and produced the Renaissance. The Swiss lived peacefully all that time, and only produced the cuckoo clock.”

> The Swiss lived peacefully all that time, and only produced the cuckoo clock.”

No, mainly because I lived in Switzerland and they have a long history of warfare and starvation as well; most don't realize the Swiss Pikemen/Mercenaries were the best of the Western World and were recruited for many other foreign militaries.

They were so well known for this craft in warfare that they still guard the Vatican to this day. Furthermore, up until WWII Switzerland has been a poor, mainly agrarian civilization that lived hand-to-mouth and were mainly made of of hardy, tough 'mountain folk' until the 19th Century. I lived in the Bernese Swiss alps in what I called my 'unabomber shack' during the Spring and Summer to prepare to move the cows up the Alps that only had a small oven, no running water, no electricity and no insulation. All it really was is just a single room attached to a barn; it was built really well and had been there for over a 100 years old, no one knew for sure, but what struck me is that this is how entire multi-generational families lived for centuries there. There were no lofty lives as Welles, and many like to think, for the majority of Swiss History until recently, and now youth suicide is a massive issue there, but I won't get into that now.

Orson Welles, like so many who have only read or stayed for short visits, took a very ignorant and narrow view of Swiss History if really believed that. I also lived in Italy which I could go even further in depth about, too.

Re: In 1980s Los Angeles, a bank was robbed every hour (2019)

#230
post #138
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also interesting that as a kid born in 1980 at the start of the drug violence epidemic, we were allowed to roam as we pleased as long as we were home for dinner. Contrast that to today's vastly safer world, and kids are not allowed to walk the neighborhood unsupervised.

Is there a chance for causal relationship?

Unfortunately, pault is already in a happy and committed relationship.
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