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Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

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Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#221

Post by alacombe »

Exmoor wrote: post #167
perardi wrote: post #120

I fear for Nikon, even though I suspect they have lifelines, given Bank of Japan’s quantitative easing. They’re the least diversified of the big camera companies. Sony has…a lot, from semiconductors to financial instruments. Canon has high-end video, scanners, and enterprise printing and copying. Nikon has photography-oriented cameras, some medical optics, and semiconductor equipment, and that’s about it. They’re jus…

Nikon also has a well respected sports-optics division (binoculars, spotting scopes), although they are also seeing a ton of competition in that marketplace as well.

If I'm mistaken, Nikon existed the scope business earlier this year.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#222

Post by trm42 »

da02 wrote: post #177
CydeWeys wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The focus motors are just flat out better in expensive lenses. By contrast, I have a $200 Panasonic pancake lens with a terrible focus motor in it. It's slow, noisy, and hunty.

Which Panasonic pancake lens do you have that is slow & noisy? How's the image quality despite the low-end motor?

Sounds like the m43 20mm f1.7, which is known for its good IQ, pancake design but annoyingly slow AF :)

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#223

Post by w0m »

balls187 wrote: post #218
robotmay wrote: post #11

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

> I've always found Nikon to be lacking in competitive models with Canon Over at Fred Miranda and DPR, canon shooters always lament about the lack of competitiveness Canon was regarding Nikon glass.

I feel like Canon shooters have been a little smug about glass; but wisty eyed looking at Sony/Nikon body's/sensors. There's... 2? Nikon lenses I'd love on my Canon FF. There's... 6? I'm aware of with no quality-price equivalent on Nikon.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#224

Post by trm42 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #180
robotmay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting: Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm I think we'll see a b…

I wonder how many photographers were put off by the cost & weight of a 800mm lens, and how many just didn't actually need a 800mm lens? The only time I can remember wanting > 200mm was back when I did sports photography.

For landscapes 400-600 mm are in some cases really nice.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#225

Post by ValentineC »

robotmay wrote: post #11

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

> Tangentially, I recently bought a superb Sigma lens and was happy to see that it was actually still made in Japan as well; I thought all the third-party lens makers had moved abroad, but surprisingly a number of them are still there.

Sigma is probably the best of the third-party lens manufacturers. I have a first-generation Sigma 50mm f/1.4 with Nikon mount (purchased around ~2011) — the build quality is great, and the bokeh is fabulous.

I can't say the same for Tamron.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#226

Post by buildbot »

perardi wrote: post #136
Hamuko wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do more boutique camera companies like Leica just survive on their (what I assume to be) large margins?

I imagine so. At the risk of angering Leica fans: they’re shipping not exactly state of the art technology at very high prices, with a lot of the R&D actually being done by Panasonic. (Or, in the case of their Lux compact cameras, they’re literally shipping Panasonic cameras with a different sticker on them.) Look at the Leica Q2: it costs $5000. The Fuji X100V costs $1300. I know there’s a bigger sensor in the Q2, b…

There's an interesting relationship between Leica, Sinar, and Panasonic for sure - Panasonic is seems to be behind the firmware in even the older Leica M series cameras, which are definitely made by Leica. The SL2 is essentially a Panasonic SR1 with a nicer body. The Leica S series medium format cameras use similiar looking firmware, and the the internals of the newest S3 power the Sinar S30|45 digital back. The Lux Cameras where just a different sticker though. The Q2, while also probably built by Panasonic, has no actual equal in terms of lenses. The lens they put on that body is stellar.

Having used an M camera briefly, they aren't worth the price new, but used they are really great values that are built like nothing else. When you tire of them, you can sell them back for what you paid, sometimes more!

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#227

Post by tomc1985 »

formerly_proven wrote: post #56
robotmay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting: Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm I think we'll see a b…

> At the moment lens prices are pretty bonkers but I think that Canon f/11 lens is a great indicator; it's basically less than 1/10th of the cost of a traditional 800mm lens and does more than enough for most people. But that tradeoff seems hardly new to me. Consumer 70-300 for ~300 $ vs. Pro 70-200 for 2000+ $. The "only" difference is build quality and the pro lens being 2-3 stops brighter. Price difference: ~10x.

I recently switched from the mid-range Nikon 24-120 f/4 to the high-end 24-70 f/2.8. Yes the high-end lens is also a stop brighter, but you're missing the point that almost everything about the optics is dramatically improved. The 24-70 is noticeably sharper, even in the corners, has superior bokeh, has much better and more-easily correctable color fringing, super accurate AF (due to the wider aperture), nearly no vignetting, much better blowout characteristics, and much better distortion at wide angles.

More importantly, those things combine to make a certain je nais sai quoi that makes photos taken with it seem to have much higher quality. I took a quick test shot of my dog when I got it and my sister remarked that she could practically feel the dog with her eyes, just looking at the photo. Nobody has ever said that about pictures of the dog that I took with the old lens, even if I spent considerable time trying to get lighting right and the dog to hold still.

My old lens ruined a bunch of shots I took in a forest that required running at the extreme edge of its settings. This new lens doesn't look like it will do that.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#228

Post by trm42 »

ghaff wrote: post #76
robotmay wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think camera bodies make a much larger difference these days than lenses, actually. Obviously the lens still makes a notable difference, and for certain forms, like wildlife photography, the lens requirements are inescapable. The new models out in the past few years have absolutely incredible low-light performance that completely change the lens landscape, even; you can now ditch the requirement of carrying a hefty…

Sigma used to be one of the brands you bought because you didn't have the money for the camera manufacturer's lens. Now, they have unique models in a number of cases. I still have mostly Canon glass but I have a couple Sigma models because Canon doesn't have the equivalent.

I belive Sigma realized that they need to up their game and a lot because the Chinese cheapo manufacturers (and partially Samyang) are eating the really low end niche. Of course Samyang has upped their game with the AF-equipped Sony FE -lenses as well, but they are still low end compared to nowadays quite good Sigma mirrorless offerings.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#229

Post by skylanh »

robotmay wrote: post #38
beagle3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting: Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm I think we'll see a b…

For what it's worth, I like Bryan Carnathan's reviews a little more for Canon specific stuff: https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-RF-800mm-F...

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#230

Post by jurassic »

dcolkitt wrote: post #97
robotmay wrote: post #11

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

I wonder if Apple is considering them as an acquisition target. At their current market cap, the dilution be a rounding error for AAPL shareholders. Apple’s cross functional business org makes them really effective at transferring expertise across product lines. Just subsidizing the high end camera line might be worth it to transfer technology and expertise to iPhone cameras. (Plus slapping an Apple logo on Nikon cam…

As a Nikon shooter with pro-level gear, replacing the Nikon logo with the Apple one would be the fastest way to get me to ditch their ecosystem.
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