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Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

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Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#221

Post by TheOperator »

jsjohnst wrote: post #216
TheOperator wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 16" slipped my mind, that varient to me was the first "good" laptop apple released in years but they were pushing a dated 15" model not so long ago. This laptop had quite a bit of overheating issues to the point you can't even drive all the monitors it says it supports on the spec sheet off the iGPU anywhere close to comfortably. The 13" models which I'm more interested in are more dated and more behind in terms…

> This laptop had quite a bit of overheating issues to the point you can't even drive all the monitors it says it supports on the spec sheet off the iGPU anywhere close to comfortably. Also, which laptop is this claim in reference to? Personal experiences: 13” M1 MBP - one LG 5K display, zero heat or fan speed issues. 16” MBP - I daily drive two LG 5K monitors with no increased heat or fan speed. Prior to picking up…

I was looking for a laptop capable of running 3x4k displays and there is currently a 186 page thread on macrumours about the 16" being too hot with external displays.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...

I can't remember where I saw the benchmarks but I saw a HUGE difference in performance for the CPU depending on if you were running an eGPU or not simply because you're not stressing the internal GPU. Closing the lid reportedly also makes a huge difference. We may be using different definitions of "overheating" but generally what I saw was a laptop which advertised it could handle FOUR 4k displays but it could only do that while being loud and slow. Looking at updated reviews it seems like it's only certain configurations that lead to this problem. Nevertheless I saw reviews, they looked bad, and I held onto my money, and bought a solution with better cooling.

I have strong hopes the m1x will just support a ton of displays out of the box and just work in a compact package. If they released a 14" that could support more than 2 displays I'd freaking faint and wake up weeping with joy that my dream computer had arrived.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#222

Post by dgdosen »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #135
mulcahey wrote: post #55

Perhaps a dumb question but I'm curious why people don't use a VPS or a cloud linux machine more for Docker/K8s development instead of running Docker locally on a Mac. In my experience Docker Desktop has been such a resource hog, and Apple's hypervisor implementation pretty poor. I much prefer to have all that heavy lifting isolated away from my development machine to keep it responsive and cool.

Without kubernetes, Docker Desktop is fine. Been running it for years on my current and previous mac book pro (the 2012 model). Docker performance has never really been an issue for me. The bundled kubernetes seems to burn a lot of CPU though; so I keep that disabled. I work with other people in teams and I don't get to tune every project I deal with to be just right for my tastes and hardware. So being able to run t…

Clarifying a bit - I can't start up the Docker Desktop Kubernetes - If I take a look at the image downloaded (docker/desktop-kubernetes) it only shows tags for amd64.

When I try to spin up kubernetes, the UI just shows 'starting...' while the logs show the image won't work with this architecture.

Anyone else see this? Any workaround?

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#223

Post by joshstrange »

tonyhb wrote: post #146
jeppesen-io wrote: post #27

Wow, that was fast. I was expecting to wait unil January. Key takeaway for me is the ability to run/build both x86 and Arm images on a M1. Can't see any reason M1s can't be used for everyone at my work now. Very nice.

Docker have had inside access to the whole M1 release since before it was announced. This is incredibly slow.

Source? The developer machines Apple shipped out didn't have virtualization support so they couldn't start on that until after the M1 and I haven't seen anything that says Docker got M1's early.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#224

Post by mbreese »

sirn wrote: post #210
mbreese wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but my question is how is it created... MacOS has a Hypervisor framework for creating VMs, which Docker is using. But I don’t know enough about those internals to understand how they are getting an x86 VM on an ARM host. I know it can be done with qemu emulation, but does that still need the MacOS hypervisor framework or does it run as a normal user process? These are the questions I’m trying to figure out…

(5) Docker Image (amd64) ^ | (4) QEMU Binfmt (arm64 amd64 binary emulation layer) ^ | (3) Linux VM (arm64) ^ | (2) Hypervisor.framework (arm64, macOS native virtualization framework) ^ | (1) Docker for Mac Linux Kernel has a feature to allow using a wrapper to execute userspace program based on file header (binfmt[1]). In this case, Linux VM in (3) has QEMU user mode emulation registered as binfmt, so any amd64 binar…

Step 4 was what I was missing.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#225

Post by Kwpolska »

swagonomixxx wrote: post #79
itake wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cost? if im dropping $3k on a machine, I don't really wanna pay another $2k in cloud fees to do the dev work. you might say, "well get a cheaper computer!" but I find that cheaper computers have worse screens, battery life, and overall quality.

I don't want to be _too_ pedantic but the M1 macbooks are significantly cheaper than their Intel counterparts. The 13 inch one is around $1300 USD. But I do agree with you. Cheaper laptops means a worse experience with almost everything.

The M1 MacBook Pros are cheaper, because they replaced the cheapest Intel MacBook Pros in the lineup. Before M1, $1299 was the price of a MBP with 1.4GHz Quad-Core Processor with Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz / 256GB Storage / Touch Bar and Touch ID: http://web.archive.org/web/20201105002246/https://www.apple....

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#226

Post by saagarjha »

pjmlp wrote: post #199
ogre_codes wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, fundamentally Docker is Linux on Linux. If you are running Linux on MacOS, it's not Docker, it's a VM. So Docker installs are Linux Docker Image -> Linux VM -> MacOS Virtualization Framework. For that reason alone, I suspect Linux will always be the best host system for Docker images.

On Windows Docker uses Windows containers for Windows images and WSL for Linux images, so whatever is the best host depends on the images.

WSL is a Linux VM, though.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#227

Post by saagarjha »

olliej wrote: post #169
mbreese wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent comment meant -- why not use Rosetta to run an x86 qemu process? Then the architecture emulation (translation?) would be done by Rosetta (potentially faster), as opposed to software emulation by qemu. Now, this might not work, as I'm not sure Rosetta covers all of the x86 instructions/settings that qemu would need, so you might be stuck with ARM64 qemu emulating x86 anyway.

From the point of view of rosetta, qemu's JIT would be completely opaque, and so would end up suffering severe performance penalties due to it having to translate code from what would appear to be an aggressively self modifying JIT. That said, assuming Qemu runs entirely in user space I would expect it to be able to run under rosetta, and am genuinely curious if it does, and what the perf is - as I said, I would expe…

That being said, Rosetta is somehow surprising OK with JITs–Java has "OK" performance under it.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#228

Post by saagarjha »

fomine3 wrote: post #180
birdyrooster wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope just a guess, wonder if anyone can confirm from Docker

It seems that Apple's contribution for OSS is weak even though they used. I heard that Apple is Java shop, but they don't contribute to ship JVM for Apple Silicon.

They shipped a C0 interpreter very early: https://github.com/apple/openjdk

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#229

Post by johnnycerberus »

pjmlp wrote: post #200
symlinkk wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t WSL2 just a VM? No more special kernel subsystem trickery? In that case it should be almost exactly the same as the macOS version of Docker.

Yes, but Hyper-V is a type 1 hypervisor, WSL runs alongside Windows, not on top of it. Plus Windows also has containers, Docker is only using WSL for Linux images, Windows containers are used for Windows images. And on Windows Server the containers can run directly on top of Hyper-V as well.

We had painful experiences with Windows containers, from being incapable to run CUDA through it to solutions that are not battle-tested and an ecosystem that is not as matured as the Linux one.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#230

Post by jsjohnst »

TheOperator wrote: post #221
jsjohnst wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This laptop had quite a bit of overheating issues to the point you can't even drive all the monitors it says it supports on the spec sheet off the iGPU anywhere close to comfortably. Also, which laptop is this claim in reference to? Personal experiences: 13” M1 MBP - one LG 5K display, zero heat or fan speed issues. 16” MBP - I daily drive two LG 5K monitors with no increased heat or fan speed. Prior to picking up…

I was looking for a laptop capable of running 3x4k displays and there is currently a 186 page thread on macrumours about the 16" being too hot with external displays. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an... I can't remember where I saw the benchmarks but I saw a HUGE difference in performance for the CPU depending on if you were running an eGPU or not simply because you're not stressing the in…

I’ve seen the same thread (and commented in it). I stand behind the statement I made there (and here in the past), it’s very likely one of two issues

1) specific monitor and connection method combinations have issues

2) manufacturing defect on some laptops that Apple is refusing to acknowledge

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