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How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

mtlynch.io

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Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#221

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

alasdair_ wrote: post #219
momokoko wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in my experience, the latter is more effective at getting the best outcome, regardless of who is nominally at fault. This is exactly my point. You are using politeness as a manipulative tactic to get your way. Instead, realize getting the wrong order at a restaurant is an incredibly insignificant issue. There was never anything to be upset about in the first place. Regardless the outcome. If someone messes up your…

Your example of “Looks like we have the wrong order. We ordered X” seems perfectly polite to me. You seem to have the opinion that basic politeness is manipulation. I suppose it can be construed as such but only in the sense that all communication is manipulation in some sense.

Here's one way to learn courtesy:

Deal with folks that are on the bad end of the stick, and consider violence to be an appropriate way to solve problems. Be someone that is trying to help them, which includes teaching them that there are other ways to resolve issues.

This kind of relationship means that we need to have an empathetic, respectful, authoritative aspect, but that we also need to realize that we could have a real, physical threat of violence directed our way, if we are not respectful and courteous (and sometimes, even then). We also need to not be doormats.

Teaches you to be polite, but firm, real quick.

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#222

Post by caymanjim »

true_religion wrote: post #199
0xfaded wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a good way to contact an online business directly and say "It seems you pay a 20% affiliate fee. I would like a 20% discount?" Amazon kinda does this with smile and donations, even though I don't use amazon anymore. I go out of my way, with link strippers, cookie removers, adblockers, to the point of often manually copy and pasting links into a private window if necessary, to avoid affiliate links. When I do…

The affiliate fee is a payment for someone who did the work of marketing the product and finding new clients that would otherwise be inaccessible. You didn’t do any of that. You are just a customer at best and don’t provide any additional value on top of the money you pay for the product. Charging less then is just the company shorting itself for a single customer.

It's also effectively defrauding whomever provided the affiliate link. I'm not claiming that it's legal fraud, but it's a mild ethical lapse. They did their job of marketing the product effectively enough that the parent was motivated to buy, and then the parent cheated them out of their reward. It's petty.

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#223

Post by nitrogen »

true_religion wrote: post #199
0xfaded wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a good way to contact an online business directly and say "It seems you pay a 20% affiliate fee. I would like a 20% discount?" Amazon kinda does this with smile and donations, even though I don't use amazon anymore. I go out of my way, with link strippers, cookie removers, adblockers, to the point of often manually copy and pasting links into a private window if necessary, to avoid affiliate links. When I do…

The affiliate fee is a payment for someone who did the work of marketing the product and finding new clients that would otherwise be inaccessible. You didn’t do any of that. You are just a customer at best and don’t provide any additional value on top of the money you pay for the product. Charging less then is just the company shorting itself for a single customer.

The only thing the merchant cares about is CAC. If a customer walks in on their own, and they can acquire their business for less than the affiliate fee, then why not?

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#224

Post by dotmanish »

wrycoder wrote: post #196
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #3

> To put it bluntly, we are not paying you for your conversions How did the CEO write this and not immediately ^H^H^H it? Could he really not think of a better phrasing than "your conversions"?

My read was that he doesn’t speak English very well and that he meant to say, “that we are not paying you...”

That’s how I read it as well. He was trying to summarize the issue at hand in that sentence.

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#225

Post by londons_explore »

If I were the CEO of any company and a customer emailed me very angry with an even vaguely plausible complaint, and then let me know that $88 would resolve the issue... I'd just pay it!

Don't make enemies over $88!

If it was $88k, then I'd treat it differently... Or if it was 1000 customers who have copy pasted the same email hoping to collect $88...

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#226

Post by merb »

GordonS wrote: post #110
newdude116 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use your US CC, make charge-backs. Big surprise once for Wizz Air :-) In general: You have to find a weak spot. I have problems with a scam (ongoing) in an East European EU country and I have been trying to get the authorities for 6 months to act. Even hiring a lawyer has been extraordinary difficult. Most don't reply Emails, others charge exorbitant fees, our last lawyer is MIA so we are trying now with a lawyer tha…

> Use your US CC, make charge-backs I'm in the UK, and made my first ever charge back a couple of months back, after Ryanair refused to refund a flight that was cancelled due to corona virus (we'd booked it before the pandemic started). I'd paid with my CC (a UK card; not sure why it would be any different with a US CC?). I forget the exact sum, but it was something like £1,500. Ryanair completely took the piss - the…

> after Ryanair refused to refund a flight that was cancelled due to corona virus

really really doubt that you even tried. In mainland europe you just needed to fill a form, after a month you would have your money back.

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#227

Post by xeromal »

mtlynch wrote: post #189
rexreed wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well first of all, do you plan to continue to do business with this unscrupulous company? Second, what is your general position on business ethics? If you get yours, then is it ok for them to be potentially screwing others? Basically are you of the perspective that as long as you're taken care of, who cares about the others? You're right, a class action would be the result here, and maybe it's not worth it for this f…

> Well first of all, do you plan to continue to do business with this unscrupulous company? I don't. I stopped doing business with them after the exchange with the co-founder. > Second, what is your general position on business ethics? If you get yours, then is it ok for them to be potentially screwing others? Basically are you of the perspective that as long as you're taken care of, who cares about the others? I do…

Exactly. If you start slinging shit, who knows if they try to get you for slander. Even if it doesn't stick, it'll cost you time and money fighting it. I believe your approach was perfect. You were able to assert your rights with them and they complied. Mission accomplished.

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#228

Post by [deleted] »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #160
tomrod wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be wise to separate out politeness, by which I interpret every comment here means patiently assertive, and obsequious, where one is a doormat and butler to all. In that view, is your view of politeness as a bad signal more aligned with obsequiousness or with civil assertiveness?

It's very common to mistake courtesy and kindness for weakness. I see it all the time. People get very, very upset, when they find out that I'm not the doormat they had me pegged to be. It's fun, when that happens.

[deleted]

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#229

Post by kposehn »

nikodunk wrote: post #212
m12k wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you use any of this affiliate 3rd party software yourself or did you roll your own solution? I'd like to make an affiliate sales program for my SaaS too, but it's hard to figure out where to start. I don't want to invest a lot of time integrating with X if nobody uses X, but I also don't want to invest a lot of time in rolling my own if everyone expects you to be using X.

Hey! I just went through the exact same thing for https://Sunboxlabs.com - shareasale et al have high up-fronts or monthlies and their own integration cost. I know people are gonna tell me it’s not worth half a day of engineering/debugging, but this is what I did for a roll-your-own affiliate mvp: write a ten line script to check the search params and set them as local storage or cookie. On checkout pass that cookie…

Ok, just going to ask everyone on this comment thread: would you be willing to test a system I have that is a super lightweight affiliate platform for startups?

I've been in the digital and affiliate space for well over a decade and have run programs from the tiny to the massive. Platforms like Impact, SAS and others are great, but if you're looking to get started and don't want to break the bank, let me know. It isn't a business, just a super simple platform for running a program that I built for my own use and could easily be used by others.

Re: How I Collected a Debt from an Unscrupulous Merchant

#230

Post by thewebcount »

I've had this happen and did something very similar. I purchased a Kardia EKG device for my spouse's smart watch (before smart watches had them built in). The web page clearly stated that you could use the product without having an account. (My spouse and I are pretty vehement about not using any device that requires an account for no reason. Getting data from a device I own to my own watch should not require an account.)

They pointed out that their web page clearly states you will need an account. I was shocked because I always make sure to very carefully research this. So I went to the wayback machine on archive.org and looked at their page on the day I purchased, and sure enough, the language was not in there. They had added it a few weeks later.

I sent them screenshots and receipts, and they still pushed back. Finally I issued them an ultimatum. Refund us the money or I'll do a chargeback and present my evidence to the credit card company. They immediately backed down and refunded us.

It is utterly insane that consumers need to take screenshots of every product page for products they buy in this day and age to not be screwed over.

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