These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…
AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
221–230 of 926 posts
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
Her research work is well-known and has had an impact, whether you like it or not: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Timnit+gebru Edit: And to be clear, her most cited paper (> 1000 citations) had an impact on what some companies did: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21284683/ibm-no-longer-gen... What is disturbing here, from a researcher's point of view (even within a company!), is the lack of transparency on wh…
It seems plausible that a key result of her research (likely including the unnamed paper which she was asked to retract) is driving change in policy and social opinion that is apparently considered harmful to Google, so the research does not add value to Google , it benefits others (e.g. particular underprivileged groups) but just imposes extra restrictions and costs to her employer. Industry research is not academia…
I'm not sure Google Brain's recruiting pitch includes a description of them blocking publication of a paper you'd worked a long time on (and even given them a heads up about, as Gebru apparently had). Their pitch is almost certainly about being able to do research similar to how you would in academia (except with more money and resources, etc.).
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#223Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#224Good for Google. I don't know anything about her, but her debate with Lecun on Twitter was enough for me to know she is toxic. I don't care how good of a researcher she is. The fact they fired her given the current climate shows they actually have balls. I had no idea... I read her email. You know what's crazy about it? she is talking about Google silencing marginalized voices. She keeps referring to herself as a mar…
Can you point me to that Twitter thread?
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "I'm so tired" bit Yeah, it sort of implies that, yes, you're angry about something, but actually have no constructive advice or solutions, other than to accuse someone of being a bad person or even a racist. The "I'm so tired" bit is similar to the "I'm not here to teach you" bit. Maybe someone can't teach you because they actually have nothing to teach.
No, "I'm so tired" means that it's an argument they have replied to before. She has written dozens of research papers, some of which probably contained arguments other than repetition of "you're a racist and a bad person". You of course know about this, or would now about this considering she is called an "AI researcher at Google" in the title of this tread. So the only lazy and un-constructive criticism is to assume…
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#226These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…
https://twitter.com/math_rachel/status/1163637485533929473 her research has been cited in multiple lawsuits and piece of legislation. It is clear from the tone of your comment that you like technology because technology is power, and your interest is not in seeing technology used to create a better future for all mankind, but to instead reach the top of existing structures of power and to dominate others.
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is so unhelpful and dumb. The US has historically been one of the most racist and discriminatory organizations in North America. Does that mean we shouldn’t engage the US? Does that mean the US can’t be less racist? Does that mean the US isn’t a tool we can try to use to make the world a better place? Unions provide countervailing power to corporate power. Racist people are racist. Sometimes these can overlap.
> The US has historically been one of the most racist and discriminatory organizations in North America. That seems like a very US-lib centric POV where the US is a cartoonish evil-dooer. In my experience Mexico is pretty much just as bad, even more so in different ways too - classism, racism, anti-indigenous sentiment, Malinchismo, rampant feminicide, etc.
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#228Wow. Outside of the issues discussed, this email was not what I would expect from senior manager. The language is all over the place. It is rambling. It is not unintelligible, but is far from an easy read. It seems like something dictated into a machine rather than something composed on a keyboard. If you are not confident in your use of language but still want to go out in a blaze of glory, make sure someone QCs you…
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#229Good for Google. I don't know anything about her, but her debate with Lecun on Twitter was enough for me to know she is toxic. I don't care how good of a researcher she is. The fact they fired her given the current climate shows they actually have balls. I had no idea... I read her email. You know what's crazy about it? she is talking about Google silencing marginalized voices. She keeps referring to herself as a mar…
Can you point me to that Twitter thread?
https://syncedreview.com/2020/06/30/yann-lecun-quits-twitter...
Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google
#230Unrelated, but hiring by race or gender is inherently racist. We should hire by skill alone whether the person is a Lesbian Black Female, or a White Male
1. I think few companies are out there "hiring by race or gender". At most companies I know, affirmative action means hiring by skill, but making sure at least XX% of the hiring pool are women, black, etc. This really just means your resume is more likely to get seen and maybe you're more likely to get a first round, but not that "you're being hired by race or gender".
2. You could argue this is still unfair (although as previously stated, you're still hiring people who earned it based on skill). Unfortunately not doing anything would me more unfair, specifically by stagnating things in the problematic state they are now [1].
In the macro-historical context, white Americans brought African slaves to their country, and actively deprived of wealth and knowledge, right? That was a societal, conscious commitment to push these people down.
Now that they're free but seriously lacking wealth and behind on knowledge too, they're expected just create that wealth and knowledge themselves. Thanks to "unfair" institutions like public education, this is going to happen regardless, but very slowly unless there's a societal, conscious commitment to push these people up.
[1]: Having a huge chunk of your society be alienated not only socially but also economically leads to conflict, could worsen the gap instead of improving it, weakens social and cultural ties, etc.