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Hire people who give a shit

alexw.substack.com

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Re: Hire people who give a shit

#221

Post by marktangotango »

wbronitsky wrote: post #121

This article is megalomaniacal. Insisting that your company with 200+ employees will only hire people who will work themselves to the bone without any mention of how those people will be properly compensated is wild corporate propaganda. I honestly don’t know why the tech industry continues to capitulate to leaders like this who obviously, and loudly, mistreat and dehumanize their employees by insisting that if you a…

Well to be fair, this author was only 2 years old when this disaster happened, posting it here for anyone not familiar:

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/business/stinging-office-...

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#222

Post by mhh__ »

Hire people who give a shit about what they like to do, and hire them to actually do that. If you find people who actually care about the company beyond the extent the company cares about them, they're either mental or very naive.

"Why do you want this Job"

I grew up dreaming about studying for half a decade to write JavaScript, why else!

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#223

Post by austincheney »

wbronitsky wrote: post #121

This article is megalomaniacal. Insisting that your company with 200+ employees will only hire people who will work themselves to the bone without any mention of how those people will be properly compensated is wild corporate propaganda. I honestly don’t know why the tech industry continues to capitulate to leaders like this who obviously, and loudly, mistreat and dehumanize their employees by insisting that if you a…

I can empathize with the merits of this idea but I also agree that such cult worship of a business idea is absurd.

There is a massive gap between the output of passionate people who go the extra mile to provide original solutions in the highest quality way versus people who watch the clock and press buttons on a keyboard. The biggest problem is how to achieve maximum talent. The solution is ownership and setting high standards, not compensation.

Ownership means allowing some control of product decisions and connecting compensation to product performance. The product staff must be willing to work hard because there is a clear connection between their effort and their rewards. This is more like a commission than a salary or equity package.

If founders really want to instill that mentality for the long term they will earn a slice off the top while driving product strategy just like a sales manager. That redirects energy away from the founders and investors back toward the thing driving revenue.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#225

Post by tehjoker »

You absolutely can give a shit and work all kinds of hours. The only important thing about working hard is logically analyzing a problem, implementing a solution, and presenting your work appropriately. Sometimes that takes two hours, sometimes it takes thirteen.

If you say, hey why aren't you solving more problems then on lighter days, then that sounds like some jerk taskmaster dictating a rate rather than someone concerned with solving problems.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#226

Post by jldugger »

bridanp wrote: post #135
svrma wrote: post #116

The comments here at HN are quite harsh imho and I feel bad for possibly ruining someone's day. Is there a way for me to delete the submission? I posted it on HN as I liked the points in the article. The points in the post are reasonable provided there's fair equity for the employees (which I believe is disclosed prior to joining - I have no knowledge about dilution, preference etc). I also agree with the commenters…

It should definitely be left up. It’s okay to have that world view at his age, and it is probably serving him well right now. I remember being 22-23 and wondering why everyone didn’t want to work 12 hours a day. Why were some leaving before 5, some came in late, some just in general did not give a shit. Here I was working hard not only to learn brand new systems, but build a disaster recovery plan, capacity planning,…

> Here I was working hard not only to learn brand new systems, but build a disaster recovery plan, capacity planning, and production control scheme from scratch. And trying to finish my degree on the side. While I’m doing all of this, these shiftless people were making excuses about kids having to be places, or wives who wanted their husbands home, or people who always seemed to be sick. I didn’t understand.

I think Brad Fitzpatrick described in Coders At Work or similar being frustrated about how people would clock out at the end of the day, when all his energy was invested in the company. And that it took him a while to realize that it comes with the territory of being a founder. You have a massive stake in the outcome, that employees aren't offered. The incentives are just wildly different, so it would be amazing if the behavior wasn't also wildly different. In fact, startup employees are often undercompensated, compared to their brethren at publicly traded firms.

> I get what Alexandr is saying, I really do. Except for the CEO bit, I had the same world view 25 years ago

Honestly I feel like if you're a founder of a company employing 200 people, you should have maybe just enough emotional intelligence to understand the motivations and incentives of most of those 200. Or be prepared to be replaced.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#228

Post by aazaa »

> The uncomfortable truth is that most people don’t give a shit.

People generally give a shit about themselves, and often their families and friends. Less about their work.

Here are some questions the author asks in interviews to get at the quality of shit-givingness:

- What’s the hardest you’ve ever worked on something?

- How many hours were you working a week?

- Why did you work so hard? Why did you care?

- When were you the most unmotivated in your life?

- What’s the thing you’re the most proud of?

- Do you think it was worth it?

These are pretty good questions to ask in general, except the one about hours working. Not only will the answer be easy to misinterpret, but asking the question gives the impression that you might care more about hours worked than results. As someone who gives a shit, that would turn me off.

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#229

Post by nowherebeen »

Ihatelife2020 wrote: post #159
wbronitsky wrote: post #121

This article is megalomaniacal. Insisting that your company with 200+ employees will only hire people who will work themselves to the bone without any mention of how those people will be properly compensated is wild corporate propaganda. I honestly don’t know why the tech industry continues to capitulate to leaders like this who obviously, and loudly, mistreat and dehumanize their employees by insisting that if you a…

From my experience, the people who get hired are people who complain about corporate propaganda and don't work hard while what I considered hard working individuals are the ones who struggle to find work. Companies hire for mediocrity, not skill. If skill mattered, I would dedicate my life to a company. But it doesn't I so won't ever care.

I am rooting for you

Re: Hire people who give a shit

#230

Post by jldugger »

daxfohl wrote: post #175
war1025 wrote: post #20

Do people at google actually work 11-4 like it says in the article?

When I interviewed there, the parking lot was full at 9:45 so.

Yea, but the parking lots are always full. Can't build office space fast enough to keep up with the demand for headcount.
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