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Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

latimes.com

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Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#221

Post by cmurf »

gagege wrote: post #175
atty wrote: post #20

What are HNers planning to do for the holidays? We’re seriously considering not seeing anyone, not even parents, even though my SO has had COVID already (she works at a hospital and contracted it from COVID patients). Stories like this are the main reason. Even if no one at the party gets very ill, the chance of further spreading it to others seriously scares me.

I'm going to travel to see my family for Christmas. I know I'll probably get hidden, flagged, whatever for saying that. I've known lots of people who have had the virus and I'm of the opinion that these news stories are quite overblown and meant to scare people. There are lots of cases, yes, but bodies aren't piling up in the streets.

Of course not. They're piling up in mobile refrigeration units.

What about the news stories are overblown exactly? What's the motive for scaring people?

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#222

Post by m0llusk »

quantified wrote: post #154
protoman3000 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we live good if there exists a significant amount of people rejecting seatbelts? We need to face the reality that on average people make bad choices which leads to substantial negative outcomes for any group. In particular, the COVID-19 pandemic again confirms empirically that humans on average don’t have self-responsibility. How can philosophical ideas that are founded on principles such as “humans have self…

Not wearing a seatbelt hurts yourself only. If Covid were an STD there would be huge social pressure on it even though it would be passed less frequently.

Strictly speaking seat belts improve the ability of drivers to stay seated and in control during emergency maneuvers. This factor can have an impact on other drivers.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#223

Post by mbostleman »

tshaddox wrote: post #12
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

It also demonstrates why the "personal choice" stuff is BS here. I see a lot of folks going "why are you worried if you're following the rules yourself?", and yet... > None of the victims who lost their lives had attended the party.

The “personal choice” stuff was always BS even on the face of it. You can probably find some “libertarians” who will argue for removing all restaurant food safety regulations, for example, but I’m pretty sure even they are okay with banning drunk driving on shared roads.

I think you're confusing libertarian with anarchist.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#224

Post by diffrinse »

protoman3000 wrote: post #140
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

It also demonstrates why the "personal choice" stuff is BS here. I see a lot of folks going "why are you worried if you're following the rules yourself?", and yet... > None of the victims who lost their lives had attended the party.

How can we live good if there exists a significant amount of people rejecting seatbelts? We need to face the reality that on average people make bad choices which leads to substantial negative outcomes for any group. In particular, the COVID-19 pandemic again confirms empirically that humans on average don’t have self-responsibility. How can philosophical ideas that are founded on principles such as “humans have self…

> We need to face the reality that on average people make bad choices which leads to substantial negative outcomes for any group. In particular, the COVID-19 pandemic again confirms empirically that humans on average don’t have self-responsibility.

None of this has to be accepted or conceded to, somehow East Asian countries are able to do to this right, even New Zealand just so we don't start hovering on West vs East, this is absolutely not "humans on average don't have self-responsibility", this is a specific culture that has promoted entitlement, selfishness, materialist hedonism, and ruthless, hackneyed individualism since the late 60s and now the bill has come due

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#225

Post by erentz »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #10
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

It also demonstrates why the "personal choice" stuff is BS here. I see a lot of folks going "why are you worried if you're following the rules yourself?", and yet... > None of the victims who lost their lives had attended the party.

Honestly, I would be okay with someone being tried for murder over this shit. Isn't the death penalty supposed to be a deterrence?

Probably not a good idea. But there is maybe very loosely a kind of precedent in cases of spreading HIV [1].

Unfortunately a lot of these people really don’t believe it is harmful. The ones who have mislead them on this by intentionally spreading misinformation are probably better targets for any kind of culpability.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_transmission_of_HIV...

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#226

Post by jayspell »

otterley wrote: post #152
jayspell wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are going on a year with COVID and the death rate is not what was advertised at the beginning. Everyone has to live their life, part of life is risk. Personal choice is BS? What in the literal hell!!! You want to take freedom away? You want to remain under house arrest fine, stay in your bubble, the nut house is a warm safe environment.

Freedom is not absolute. As Hobbes said, without government to help organize us, life is "nasty, brutish, and short." Obviously there is such a thing as too much control, but there is also such a thing as too little. Situations such as this are extraordinary. We have a virulent and serious disease we're trying to control the best way we can. The best leaders are making difficult decisions using the best science we ha…

I said nothing about masks. This thread has people advocating murder charges for going to a wedding and spreading to someone who dies afterwards. WHO said lockdowns should not be primary method of stopping the spread. Lockdowns harm as much as help, loss of jobs at the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum, cancer screenings delayed, mental health issues related to isolation, and we don't know the huge cost of what has already occurred. Quite a few want to look at one thing and not the entirety of a situation. The stats show that this virus is no worse than the Hong Kong flu (1-4 million people died in 1968 / 1969). We went to the freaking moon and held Woodstock during that time. You don't value life by not living it.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#227

Post by sequoia »

war1025 wrote: post #214
sequoia wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they have spiking case counts just like the US right now. What lead to this recent spike, in your opinion?

> What lead to this recent spike, in your opinion? The virus is seasonal just like the flu would be my guess.

OK you must be yanking my chain now, I can't believe you're commenting on this so boldly and are completely unaware of the last huge spike in cases when occurred in July.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/world/coronavirus-covid-1...

over & out

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#228

Post by triangleman »

raesene9 wrote: post #64
NotTheDr01ds wrote: post #41

Isn't the long-term care facility link a little implausible? 4 days seems like a bit short for the child to be infected, incubate to the point of being contagious, pass it to the parent, then incubate again to the parent being symptomatic. Regardless, the wedding and reception behavior was entirely irresponsible. But the link between it and the long-term care cases seems tenuous, at best.

It would depend on how the tracing was done I'd expect. I believe it is often possible to sequence the data from the infections to provide a link between them, that may have been done in this case. ( https://twitter.com/nextstrain - is an example)

Check the study:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6945a5.htm

It looks like just contact tracing here, not genome sequencing.

The patient in question is A2 and the study does not say whether they ever tested positive or had symptoms.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#229

Post by bigwavedave »

nostromo wrote: post #191
RationalThought wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - it's people like you. Humans are more than a statistic - and you putting high-risk in scare-marks and asking if politicians asking us to wear a fucking mask and social distance are the problem is exactly the kind of selfish thinking that made this pandemic so bad. Some in this thread seem to think we need to let people die. High risk includes kids. It includes software-engineers who are in their 20s. It isn't ju…

> High risk includes kids. It includes software-engineers who are in their 20s. This is false.

To be fair, it's accurate if they also fall into an actual high-risk category like "immuno-compromised" like my sister, but I really doubt that's what the parent meant ;).

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#230

Post by onedognight »

protoman3000 wrote: post #179
quantified wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wearing a seatbelt hurts yourself only. If Covid were an STD there would be huge social pressure on it even though it would be passed less frequently.

> Not wearing a seatbelt hurts yourself only. And yet people in many countries reject it. If a significant amount of people already makes a bad choice at this point where it affects themselves we cannot expect these people to make good choices to protect others.

Are you paying extra for all the people who need to clean up your body in the accident you get into? And to bring the coroner out just to verify your time of death. And all the lost time of the other people on the road delayed because you died or were seriously injured when you didn't have to be. We all pay these costs with higher insurance and higher taxes. These costs are a drag on society. Just like smokers, people who don't wear seatbelts should pay more for insurance. Likewise, they should pay more in taxes because they cost more.
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