Live data from Hacker News

California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

wsj.com

221–230 of 387 posts

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#221
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have data on slavery? My understanding was the North was pretty anti-slavery and had 3x the population of the south. I'd be interested if there is actual polling data to suggest if a popular vote was held it would have failed.

I thought part of the point of the strange election process we have was to "ensure" that southern states would have a vote even in the face of a more populous north…

Untrue, the South was more populous than the North during the ratification of the Constitution -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...

In fact, it was the slave owning southern states that wanted the Senate to be apportioned proportionally, rather than equally (this was the Virginia Plan). The Virginia Plan created a two-chamber legislature with proportional representation based on population. The New Jersey Plan would have allocated one member of Congress to each state. The Connecticut Compromise that led to the current allocation received buy-in from both slave and non-slave states, because it was about small vs large states, which were present in both sides.

The population advantage of the South was the impetus behind the infamous "three fifths compromise". The 3/5 compromise was designed to reduce the interest of slave-holding states in Congress as well as the elections.

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#222
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are people valuing their freedom and independence more than those benefits? Not everybody likes being an employee and I think that is great Free to be forced to work off medical debt because they didn't have health insurance, yeah?

Yes! Absolutely! Free to make our own mistakes and learn from them instead of living protected by the Big Brother and never learn anything. Free to make our own choices and support the consequences like adults, not children. This FREEDOM is what America was built on and what keeps it enduring.

> This FREEDOM is what America was built on and what keeps it enduring.

Does the existence of minimum wage laws abrogate your "FREEDOM"?

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#223

Californians seem determined to ensure that the mass of people in their state are underpaid, unhealthy and an inch from being homeless.

Uber. Lyft, etc are already operating on shitty business models with bad margins and totally exposed to economic shifts. I can't imagine that type business model being sustainable with anything different that contract (gig) work.

I'm not defending the gig economy, but I'm sure that if these companies were forced to employ all their workers as FT employees, they would be inviable.

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#224
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you find hard to believe that there are people valuing their freedom and independence more than those benefits? Not everybody likes being an employee and I think that is great. Choice is a great thing to have.

Ah, the myth of American freedom: with no health insurance, no maternity leave to speak of, no safety nets, no guarantees in the form of liveable minimum wages...

That "myth" is what America was built on and what made it great. Yes, it's called FREEDOM, comes with no guarantees and includes your freedom to disagree with it.

If you desire safety above freedom, you deserve neither - (loosely) said somebody much smarter than me.

I've lived without that freedom and it was horrifying. I would never go back. I understand not everybody prefers it so that's why I am happy you have the choice to be an employee, but please do not deny me the choice to not be.

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#225
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Absolutely! Free to make our own mistakes and learn from them instead of living protected by the Big Brother and never learn anything. Free to make our own choices and support the consequences like adults, not children. This FREEDOM is what America was built on and what keeps it enduring.

> This FREEDOM is what America was built on and what keeps it enduring. Does the existence of minimum wage laws abrogate your "FREEDOM"?

Yes. My very first job, who gave me my start in life and taught me to Work when I knew only to consume, would not exist today.

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should be free to work for whom they please under the terms they want. As a Californian, I am proud of the people for getting this passed.

Many Californians would willingly work in 1900s factory conditions with machines eating body parts and people passing out from exhaustion because that's the only work they can get. This kind of completely unregulated employment market that you seem to want is exactly the thing that people fought against for decades for damn good reasons.

Then it would make sense to look at what makes California such a job wasteland and maybe try to fix it instead of limiting job opportunities even more.

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#227
post #115

Good. The users and the drivers both wanted this. You may dislike hearing this, but it takes a lot to inject yourself into that arrangement and massively increase the cost because you want it done differently. I recognise that it appears to create "rules for thee but not for me" for these companies, but when they are so thoroughly satisfying both their customers and their workers, you should ask yourself if forcing t…

Another "user" is the taxpayer - who ultimately ends up paying for the social security, healthcare, and other unmet needs (lack of paid sick leave, lack of paid maternity/paternity leave etc.) of these contractors. So in a way, by exempting Uber from these rules, but not others, society is handing out a subsidy for both the passengers and drivers.

I find this use of the term subsidy entirely unconvincing. That's simply not what the word means in ordinary usage and so using it this way feels nakedly obfuscatory.

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#228

Prop 22 may or may not be good, but its passage means that AB5 was bad. The state Assembly screwed up. When you pass a law that affects so many ordinary people, you better be sure that's what they want. Instead of a practical solution, AB5 came across as just meddling.

> you better be sure that's what they want. This logic makes no sense at all. For example, everyone wants a bunch of free money - should the Assembly pass a ton of bills that write blank checks with no budget changes to back them up? Everyone loves artificially low property taxes for existing residents, and that's been an unmitigated disaster for the state. The Assembly's job is to pass bills that positively benefit…

Reducto ad absurdum is unconvincing in this context.

It's simple. A lot of people like app-based driving, both customers and drivers. Some people don't, like professional full-time drivers who are trying to use it for their primary income. The Assembly failed to communicate why AB5 was a good balance between those needs, and as far as I can tell, it was not a good balance.

Re: California Voters Exempt Uber, Lyft, DoorDash from Having to Reclassify Drivers

#229
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the myth of American freedom: with no health insurance, no maternity leave to speak of, no safety nets, no guarantees in the form of liveable minimum wages...

That "myth" is what America was built on and what made it great. Yes, it's called FREEDOM, comes with no guarantees and includes your freedom to disagree with it. If you desire safety above freedom, you deserve neither - (loosely) said somebody much smarter than me. I've lived without that freedom and it was horrifying. I would never go back. I understand not everybody prefers it so that's why I am happy you have the…

> That "myth" is what America was built on and what made it great.

Ah yes. How can one forget about the great freedom of slavery, exploitation of the Chinese, back breaking labor of miners etc. etc.

> If you desire safety above freedom, you deserve neither - (loosely) said somebody much smarter than me.

That quote was in no shape, way or form about healthcare or maternity leave

> I've lived without that freedom and it was horrifying.

You've lived... without which freedom exactly?

Post reply on HN