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How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

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Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#221

Post by bhoessen »

missedthecue wrote: post #211
sjg007 wrote: post #146

Tech workers should absolutely unionize it’s in our best interest.

Why do tech unions in other countries not produce the same pay level found in the US?

Because we don't have the same costs as in the US (university, healthcare, housing, ...). For instance, the cost to attend courses in a good university in Belgium is at most 835 euro/year [0]. (This does not include textbooks)

In the EU, the market is much more fragmented because of the many languages we speak.

[0] https://uclouvain.be/en/study/inscriptions/tuition-fees.html

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#222

Post by throw_m239339 »

philliphaydon wrote: post #218

What’s the benefit of unions? Because from the outside looking at Teachers unions in America I see that only hurts education and benefits Teachers. It doesn’t help make education better. So it seems like unions protect the employee but damage everything else. (Serious question I’m super curious why tech unions are a good thing cos I have 0 idea)

> and benefits Teachers

> So it seems like unions protect the employee

Yes, that's the entire point of a union. It's about the employees, nothing else. collective bargaining. union is strength.

> that only hurts education

It doesn't, that's a myth. What hurts education is lack of funding for education.

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#223

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

twblalock wrote: post #184
Apocryphon wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should total comp really be used in this comparison, rather than actual salary?

Why would only looking at salary be relevant?

Because if (when) the markets crash by 40% and show no sign of recovery, salary will remain a lot more constant than total comp.

Seriously markets only go up (and the absurd inflation of tech company stock prices since 2008) is a deep, deep problem with society which will inevitably end.

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#224

Post by ry454 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #94

So are tech workers treated better at kick starter than they are at, say, google or amazon, or even treated better than they were at Kickstarter pre-union? The only thing in the article I could really find was: > Employees who are still with the company say that because of the union, management has been more receptive to worker grievances, especially now during the pandemic. Employees were able to ensure that staff w…

"management has been more receptive" - that's a corpspeak for "nothing has changed", i.e. a bunch of vague statements with no substance that lazily nudge the reader to attribute something (severance pay) to someone, without saying that explicitly because that would be a lie (with potential legal troubles). If there were meaningful changes, they would be attributed to the union explicitly: "thanks to our union representative, we've come up with a revised agreement that gives all employees 8 weeks of vacation, 40% higher pay and eliminates the non-compete clause."

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#225

Post by twblalock »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #223
twblalock wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would only looking at salary be relevant?

Because if (when) the markets crash by 40% and show no sign of recovery, salary will remain a lot more constant than total comp. Seriously markets only go up (and the absurd inflation of tech company stock prices since 2008) is a deep, deep problem with society which will inevitably end.

That's not the point.

Companies exist to reward their shareholders. Employees at most companies get paid as little as possible, as long as they don't quit. At tech companies, employees are shareholders and therefore they get to be part of the group of people that the company exists to reward.

If you approach your stock compensation with that understanding, you'll be fine. If you expect the stock to only ever increase in value then you are being stupid. In my experience, tech workers at public companies are pretty savvy about their stock compensation. At startups, it's another matter...

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#227

Post by twblalock »

onion2k wrote: post #214
missedthecue wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If both parties are winning what's the problem here? Do you feel compelled to make one party win at the expense of another? Is that a more desirable outcome on net?

I didn't say everyone wins. I said everyone feels like they've won. Those aren't the same. If I have to split $2,000,000 between you and me, but you don't know how much money there is, then you might be happy with me giving you $400,000. That's $400,000 you didn't have before. Hell yeah, $400k! That's loads. The fact we're both going away happy doesn't make it right though. There's a big disparity there. If you found…

> If I have to split $2,000,000 between you and me, but you don't know how much money there is, then you might be happy with me giving you $400,000. That's $400,000 you didn't have before. Hell yeah, $400k! That's loads. The fact we're both going away happy doesn't make it right though. There's a big disparity there. If you found out that I'd kept 4* what you got you'd have every reason to be pissed about it.

Do you honestly believe that every penny a company makes ought to be given to its employees?

If not, then why should employees expect to make more than the market rate for the labor they provide?

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#229

Post by Apocryphon »

missedthecue wrote: post #208
CPLX wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think professional sports leagues and the movie business base opportunities and compensation on seniority I don't know what to tell you. Those fields are almost completely unionized. There's no obvious reason to think that the market for high skilled technical workers would be substantially different.

If you don't think the UAW or ILWU bases opportunities and compensation on seniority I don't know what to tell you

Why would an SWE union be forced to follow the trends set by other unions? I thought tech was supposed to march to the beat of its own drum. Think different.

Re: How tech workers at Kickstarter formed one of the only unions in the industry

#230

Post by Apocryphon »

missedthecue wrote: post #209
scsilver wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We dont need a union, we need a stronger professional organization with appropriate licensing/apprenticeship, akin to other engineers, doctors, accountants, lawyers ect.

Increased barriers to entry for SWE?

If you could replace the whiteboarding technical interview rigamarole with a rigorous certification exam, say it has to be retaken only every 8-10 years so one's skills stay fresh but not every 1-3 years or however often most engineers change jobs now, why not? Besides the sudden drop in content on HN written by people venting.
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