'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#221

Post by ed25519FUUU » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:13 PM UTC

arminiusreturns wrote: post #124

vb6sp6 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes it quite annoys me that those personality traits are so embedded in myself though, because it seems to constantly be a headbutting of cultures that so many Americans on the coastal big cities just don't get or approve of, and love to condescendingly talk about that kind of personality as lesser or barbarous in some way. "rugged individualists" always seem to care a lot about how they are viewed by "coasta…

It's not just about caring how I am viewed for no reason, it's that I have to deal with the culutural differences daily both professionally and personally, but mostly professionally. I keep my politics etc to myself in the workplace, but the coastal elites seem to want to shove theirs down everyones throats, even in the workplace, which is very jarring. It's one of the same reasons I fled the bible belt and went to D…

And these fears are not unfounded. For example, the 12 year old Colorado student suspended from school because of a toy gun being seen on Zoom. And that was just a toy...

Firearms are just one such cultural flashpoint, where "don't ask don't tell" is really the only modus operandi for those surviving inside the SV monoculture.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#222

Post by phobosanomaly » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

s5300 wrote: post #215

01100011 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we didn't live in a world of property taxes... Wealth should not be sneered at. Wealth buys a new well for your farm. Wealth buys you tools to expand your capabilities. Wealth allows you to exploit the capabilities of society to accomplish things beyond yourself. Do you want to preserve gun or property rights so you can continue to live a self-reliant lifestyle? That takes wealth(or you can cop-out and let ot…

"Most HN readers time is far more valuable than a plumber or carpenter." I think, in the words of today's youth, the response to this is something along the lines of "Big Yikes" That's quite a staunch outlook on society. Do you like playing around in literal shit so that literal shit doesn't back up in your house? Have you automated a system to be able to do this robotically? If not, I'd suggest valuing your plumbers…

You're not being snarky. Seems pretty on the mark.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#223

Post by bumby » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:26 PM UTC

s5300 wrote: post #215

01100011 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we didn't live in a world of property taxes... Wealth should not be sneered at. Wealth buys a new well for your farm. Wealth buys you tools to expand your capabilities. Wealth allows you to exploit the capabilities of society to accomplish things beyond yourself. Do you want to preserve gun or property rights so you can continue to live a self-reliant lifestyle? That takes wealth(or you can cop-out and let ot…

"Most HN readers time is far more valuable than a plumber or carpenter." I think, in the words of today's youth, the response to this is something along the lines of "Big Yikes" That's quite a staunch outlook on society. Do you like playing around in literal shit so that literal shit doesn't back up in your house? Have you automated a system to be able to do this robotically? If not, I'd suggest valuing your plumbers…

I think part of the problem is we’ve confused (and society has disproportionately valued) what is valuable to the economy vs what is valuable to society.

I think it was Penn Jillette who basically said we should most value those who we’d want around in the apocalypse. Farmers, doctors, mechanics would all be worth more than a financier. Maybe the irony is that in the coming decades they will have their comeuppance if their jobs are least likely to be automated away

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#224

Post by ed25519FUUU » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:27 PM UTC

briga wrote: post #141

HarryHirsch wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the vast and dangerous interior of the continent Sounds romantic but is it the truth? I understand that immigration was spearheaded by entrepreneurs who published guides to the new land and advertised in the homeland. You can see some of the spirit in foreign graduate students - they follow recommendations and usually have a very good idea what they are getting themselves into.

You better believe the interior was dangerous before railroads and highways and air conditioning, especially the mountains and deserts of the American southwest. It's only comparatively recently that many of these places have been able to support large populations

While driving recently through Eastern Oregon, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the landscapes. It was like the surface of another planet. Miles and miles, hours and hours of arid, dry, dirt landscapes. Nearly formless except for the rolling, dark mounds of earth.

For much of the trip there wasn't even speed signs posted, let alone cell phone service. The temperature was over 100 degrees outside. More than a few times I wondered what might happen if we ran out of gas

I have a lot of respect for our early pioneers. People were definitely made of a different material back then. Your whole life packed up in a wagon, and it's do or die.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#225

Post by disown » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:37 PM UTC

Melting_Harps wrote: post #169

briga wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You better believe the interior was dangerous before railroads and highways and air conditioning, especially the mountains and deserts of the American southwest. It's only comparatively recently that many of these places have been able to support large populations

> You better believe the interior was dangerous before railroads and highways and air conditioning, especially the mountains and deserts of the American southwest. It's only comparatively recently that many of these places have been able to support large populations Very. In fact many books about the rise of new migrants into the Mid-west are documented with immense amounts of violence at the hands of native plain tr…

> and many Western settlers were lured into the Midwest/South only to suffer a hapless fate as so many and were captured, killed, raped, enslaved.

lured? The natives ( comanche, lakota, dakota, cheyenne, etc ) didn't want western "settlers" on their land. Especially since the midwest and southwest natives already knew about the genocide committed against the natives along the east coast by the "settlers".

> It doesn't justify the violence that has come since from Westerners

Violence? It's called genocide/extermination. Lets not mince words here.

Just remember that most "history" books, even those recommended by joe rogan, are highly biased and tend to paint a highly subjective "story". Also, there is incentive to "hype" things for a targeted audience.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#226

Post by black_puppydog » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:38 PM UTC

mercurialshark wrote: post #198

clord wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a similar way in Canada, and I run long range ubiquiti radios (~12km) to nearest small town. get 150-200mbps and since I have battery backup + generator, usually the only reason it goes down is if the ISP router dies. I get ~1 bar of LTE that flickers to 3g, but with wifi calling it's not an issue. In addition to changing my own alternator, I run a small ISP for my neighbours :)

Where can I learn more specifics about configuring/deploying a similar setup? Thanks.

There are open comprehensive resources like the open book "WiFi networking in the developing world" [1] which seem pertinent here even though we're talking about North America. :P

[1]: http://wndw.net/book.html

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#227

Post by sjy » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:39 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #158

bluGill wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first time through first aid training was just after princess Diana died. The trainers from the local level one hospital were convinced that if the accident had happened in the US she would have lived. They even had a local case of a very similar accident just a month before where those involved lived, in large part because it wasn't on doctor in the ambulance trying to do things it was over a dozen doctors specia…

There are plenty of stories/opinions one way or the other. What occasionally comes up are situations where doctors unexpectedly arrive at accident scenes, take over, and apply procedures that the ambulance crews are totally untrained for. "Dr. Mark Forrest knew he had to act fast to save the life of a man he watched go into cardiac arrest after a motorcycle accident — so he opened up the man's chest right there on th…

That’s a fascinating story. I wonder what procedure was actually performed.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#228

Post by jschwartzi » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:52 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #112

jschwartzi wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was told once when doing a WFA practicum that if search and rescue were called it would take several hours before I could expect to see a helicopter or have a team at the trailhead. This is mostly because it's a volunteer organization and whoever is at the phone doing dispatch has to call people and get them to go from where they're at to the headquarters to get gear, and then from there to wherever they're needed.…

In the pacific northwest, helicopters are almost never used for searching. The are just too expensive/dangerous and often useless as they cannot see through fog/cloud/trees etc. Everyone heading into that backcountry should be prepared to spend a night or two in the woods. That doesn't mean hauling a tent but it does mean hauling some warm rain gear, a proper flashlight (not a cellphone) boots and some basic first ai…

Yeah this was my point.They do have a helicopter at the Snohomish County SAR but they advised us that we shouldn't count on it and that we especially shouldn't count on it being sortied very quickly relative to a suburban ambulance service. I think that's one of the reasons cited for Emergency Shelter being part of the 10 Essentials. If you have to do extensive first aid or one of your party is incapacitated you will probably be overnighting in the backcountry here even if you're on a day hike or climb.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#229

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:54 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #190

ColanR wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the caveat may not even be needed. [Many] stereotypes have some truth to them.

Yes, but I find the ones that aren't clearly condescending/antagonistic tend to be a lot more accurate. Ones like "women can't drive" aren't coming purely from a place of earnest observation, but from a desire to other and mock another demographic. That makes them suspect, because you know the originators of the stereotype were going out of their way to find something bad.

[deleted]

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#230

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 11:57 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #223

s5300 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most HN readers time is far more valuable than a plumber or carpenter." I think, in the words of today's youth, the response to this is something along the lines of "Big Yikes" That's quite a staunch outlook on society. Do you like playing around in literal shit so that literal shit doesn't back up in your house? Have you automated a system to be able to do this robotically? If not, I'd suggest valuing your plumbers…

I think part of the problem is we’ve confused (and society has disproportionately valued) what is valuable to the economy vs what is valuable to society. I think it was Penn Jillette who basically said we should most value those who we’d want around in the apocalypse. Farmers, doctors, mechanics would all be worth more than a financier. Maybe the irony is that in the coming decades they will have their comeuppance if…

David Graeber (RIP) and others would seriously question whether the financier even does anything for the economy, let alone society.