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Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

mobile.reuters.com

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Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#221

Post by fomine3 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #190
rebelos wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very cavalier attitude given how much of the consumer app ecosystem depends on ad revenue to survive. Having it drop precipitously over a very short span of time could trigger a chain reaction that might ultimately reduce the availability or utility of apps for consumers. It will also disproportionately harm the long tail of app developers. I detest tracking just as much as anyone else here but I'm skeptical…

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of ad-based apps (without IAP of some kind) make less than $0.50 lifetime revenue on average from 90+% of users. Some quick checking suggests that the median total revenue for most apps is close to $0. Most apps would probably win out if they said "turns out ads don't work, would you be willing to pay $0.99". Even if they lost users, they'd gain revenue. Whenever an unsust…

I doubt lifetime revenue is less than $0.5 in general. I'd like to see statistics. Even if $0.5 is correct, do you think 1/2 of users pay $0.99? Looks like optimistic.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#222

Post by fomine3 »

vanc_cefepime wrote: post #38

As much as I like iOS in this regard, it’s a shame Apple felt this threatened to delay this feature. I’m sure privacy is a high priority to Apple but when it comes to money, expect them to do this more often. Privacy users are already taking things into their own hands anyway, so this only hurts the tech novices. Edit: It’s funny how on HN, you can tell the ones who get triggered when you say something disparaging ab…

Ad industry is sucks but we should take care about sustainability of free journalism, services and app ecosystem. Apple (one of richest group in society) was going to banning thing too quickly.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#223

Post by stjohnswarts »

librish wrote: post #7

One thing that removes a lot of credibility from Apple's "for the good of the user" communication on this is that they broke out the personalization for their own ad network as an option, put it in a different location, and made it opt-out instead of opt-in. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-a...

I was actually considering a apple phone if they came through. This just put the nails in that coffin. I'll just stick with Android where I can install whatever I want for the most part.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#224

Post by zo1 »

rebelos wrote: post #183
JoshTriplett wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the major players in the industry just weren't ready for it That's an excellent reason to do it.

That's a very cavalier attitude given how much of the consumer app ecosystem depends on ad revenue to survive. Having it drop precipitously over a very short span of time could trigger a chain reaction that might ultimately reduce the availability or utility of apps for consumers. It will also disproportionately harm the long tail of app developers. I detest tracking just as much as anyone else here but I'm skeptical…

I'd say that's a good thing. I would further posit that some number above 90% of all apps on the respective app-stores are useless junk and need to be pruned immediately. Ads are a societal ill at this point (just look at what it's done to mobile gaming, or how somehow we have profitable websites seem to need to put ads on anyways e.g. Ebay).

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#226

Post by zo1 »

pwinnski wrote: post #104
gowld wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason you are so desperate for this feature is that Apple refuses to let you install a firewall on the phone you supposedly own. Otherwise you could be running pihole today.

This would be different from a pi-hole, which counts entirely on separate domains.

I imagine Pihole is a just an example to illustrate a point. Once you have access to all network/http traffic, you can do an amazing amount of harm to ad-networks' ability to track and send you unwanted content. Imagine that kind of full access under the user's control. Not only that but you can cache/save/transform/manipulate how you receive the content you request on your device.

That's why the conspiracy-theorist in me thinks the tech companies have been pushing for HTTPs so heavily this past decade. It's "privacy" enabling sure, but at the same time makes it next to impossible to stop ad content and to break up tech data silos.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#227

Post by K0nserv »

Nextgrid wrote: post #208
K0nserv wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you've said is accurate, but one thing that's different in this case compared to the web is Apple's walled garden. The walled garden certainly has problems but in this case a real benefit is that Apple forbids these kinds of technical workarounds. You can implement them, but do you want to run the risk of your app being banned from the only distribution channel on iOS because of it?

That walled garden still appears to have major holes in its fences, as shown by the Facebook SDK having infected every single mainstream app for the sole purpose of stalking the user in the background (over time Facebook can correlate the traffic by date/time, IP address, device type, etc and link different instances of the SDK together).

Yes, but this what the feature is aiming to address. Apps that use the Facebook SDK will have to ask for permission to track the user and if the user says no they shouldn't intialize the Facebook SDK, at least not the parts that relate to ad analytics and tracking.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#228

Post by Nextgrid »

K0nserv wrote: post #227
Nextgrid wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That walled garden still appears to have major holes in its fences, as shown by the Facebook SDK having infected every single mainstream app for the sole purpose of stalking the user in the background (over time Facebook can correlate the traffic by date/time, IP address, device type, etc and link different instances of the SDK together).

Yes, but this what the feature is aiming to address. Apps that use the Facebook SDK will have to ask for permission to track the user and if the user says no they shouldn't intialize the Facebook SDK, at least not the parts that relate to ad analytics and tracking.

It seems to me that this feature only restricts access to the IDFA/Advertising ID. It does not prevent the app from loading a piece of malware that uses other means (device & network fingerprinting) to stalk you regardless of the availability of the IDFA.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#229

Post by cwhiz »

makecheck wrote: post #107
librish wrote: post #7

One thing that removes a lot of credibility from Apple's "for the good of the user" communication on this is that they broke out the personalization for their own ad network as an option, put it in a different location, and made it opt-out instead of opt-in. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-a...

Yeah, this is crazy: Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> (ALL the way to the bottom of the list, past all apps) System Services -> Location-Based Apple Ads. Oh, and if you have text size increased by any amount, “Ads” doesn’t even appear and it’s just “Location-Based Apple...” (on or off). The harder something is to find and disable, the shadier it seems.

Fixed in iOS 14, at least.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#230

Post by K0nserv »

Nextgrid wrote: post #228
K0nserv wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this what the feature is aiming to address. Apps that use the Facebook SDK will have to ask for permission to track the user and if the user says no they shouldn't intialize the Facebook SDK, at least not the parts that relate to ad analytics and tracking.

It seems to me that this feature only restricts access to the IDFA/Advertising ID. It does not prevent the app from loading a piece of malware that uses other means (device & network fingerprinting) to stalk you regardless of the availability of the IDFA.

Apple have been very clear about you being responsible for the SDKs you use and while the technical limitations are only about IDFA Apple have also stated that other methods of fingerprinting are not allowed when the user asked not to be tracked. Thus, App A that uses SDK B can be banned from the App Store if the user asked not to be tracked but B still tracks using something like fingerprinting.
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