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Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

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Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#221

Post by gambler »

falcolas wrote: post #179
gambler wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is syncing across devices not opt-in? Why doesn't Kindle tell you which data it sends and when?

Sync is opt-in. And, good question. It would be nice, though I'm sure they've buried it in their multi-page privacy doc somewhere. EDIT: No, it's not opt-in. Reading failure on my part.

>Sync is opt-in.

https://www.epubor.com/whispersync-for-kindle.html

"And "Whispersync for Books" is enabled on Kindle Fire, Kindle devices and apps by default."

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/amazon-whispernet-work-58992...

"Whispersync is on by default in all new Kindles, but you can turn off the option on individual devices if you have multiple readers attached to your account."

https://ebookfriendly.com/how-to-disable-data-collection-kin...

"How to disable data collection on your Kindle or Fire device"

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#222

Post by theptip »

raxxorrax wrote: post #166
falcolas wrote: post #109

This statement - "None of these requests appear to be used for customer features like last read location." - bugs me, because it's fairly obviously false, and detracts from the real concerns. To sync a "last read page" across devices, you need to send a location back to Amazon. It's also appropriate to tie a location to a device, so you can pick the appropriate device to sync your position from. And, when you highlig…

I honestly don't mind the FUD as long as user don't have options. Amazon deserves the bad press in that case. Kindle is an awesome screen reader, but such features make it a bad device. A good device just had an option "sync usage data to Amazon account" . People suggest it is a technical impossibility. It is just a shame that you have no options. Had to quickly search if my kindle has GPS capabilities. Gladly it doe…

> A good device just had an option "sync usage data to Amazon account"

The Kindle has an option to "sync last page", which you can turn off -- that sounds like it could be exactly what you're asking for, but more experimentation would be needed to know for sure.

I didn't see any mention of this config in the OP, aside from mentioning that the feature exists, so it's unclear whether the data being sent is used just for that feature, or whether less data is sent if the sync feature is turned off.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#224

Post by danShumway »

falcolas wrote: post #216
danShumway wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which sucks Note that it doesn't just suck because you're giving up using the Kindle itself. It also sucks because you'll be losing your entire collection of Ebooks, which are DRM-encumbered and can not be ported to other non-Amazon devices/platforms/apps. This makes it extremely difficult for other privacy-respecting platforms to compete on the market, since using them requires the user to either break the law by…

I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding - you can turn off analytics on your e-reader without giving up the kindle platform. It's also separate from whispersync (which can also be disabled independently).

Just for clarification -- is this something that actually turns off the collection itself?

I'm seeing conflicting things online that range from "just hit this toggle and you're good", to "you can disable some of it, but not all", to "this only opts out of data processing for ads/analytics".

If there really is an option to disable the collection entirely, then that would mitigate a large number of the problems I have with that practice. Of course I'd love for it to be opt-in, but just giving the option would still be better than many other devices like Smart TVs.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#225

Post by ballenf »

Hitton wrote: post #154
BCharlie wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mention that the data that appears to be used for those purposes is sent again in a separate request to a separate end point, so we have two types of requests: last read location, and reading analytics. Sorry it wasn't clear, I'll try to improve the wording.

I liked the article. If you are gonna update it, please consider also mentioning technical aspect. Frankly, Amazon snooping on users is to be expected, but short mention of app for which platform have you analysed using which tools would be welcome addition.

> Frankly, Amazon snooping on users is to be expected

Snooping on users during e-commerce transactions, sure.

But recording user's detailed interactions with every ebook? I hope that's a big surprise to your average Kindle user.

It would be great to see a data request response and how much of this data is retained and for how long. It's clearly not anonymized at the request level.

Very easy to see a future where just reading certain books or reading certain books too many times could flag you as dangerous or be used to support a mental incompetence hearing resulting in loss of rights.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#227

Post by whoopdedo »

Despoisj wrote: post #38

As a former Kindle developer, I can say that most of what's mentioned in this article are metrics used to understand how the features are used (bookmarks, highlights, dictionnary, etc.), how much they are used, and in which country. This allows the teams to focus on features that are actively used, and sometimes lead to discontinuing features that see little to no use. Hope that helps.

As a developer, that is how _your dev team_ used the data. Can you confidently say that the metrics weren't also being accessed by the marketing department for different purposes? Or that it wasn't being shared with Amazon's business partners?

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#228

Post by bambax »

> Unfortunately, in order to use a non-Kindle application, I have to buy DRM-Free books

No. All you have to do is own an old Kindle (buy one on ebay if necessary). Then you can download DRM protected Kindle files from Amazon for this old device, and Calibre and the appropriate plugin can un-DRM them, and transform them in any other format (epub, mobi, text, rtf...) for you to use on your app of choice.

It's certainly better to buy DRM-free books directly if you can find them, but the above solution works quite well.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#229

Post by jacobr1 »

gambler wrote: post #190
falcolas wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have to figure out some kind of secure key sharing mechanism between phones, tablets, web browsers, and e-readers. Or, you can trust that a position in a book (bookmarks, notes, etc.) is not sensitive information that really needs to be encrypted. This is my - perhaps overly pragmatic - position.

>You'd have to figure out some kind of secure key sharing mechanism between phones, tablets, web browsers, and e-readers. Yeah, it's not like Amazon can afford security experts to work on this or anything. >Or, you can trust that a position in a book (bookmarks, notes, etc.) is not sensitive information that really needs to be encrypted. This is an ignorant position that has been proven wrong over, and over, and over…

I've been thinking about PII in this context.

If all data is secured by default, then the identification of PII is not about deciding to secure that data, it is about identifying where we might impose (and often this isn't required, but now we can consider it) additional UX burden or complexity in order to add _additional_ security.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#230

Post by violetgarden »

oblio wrote: post #129
jjcon wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called the terms of service?

1. Nobody actually reads Terms of Service (well, governments and some major businesses do, but 99,99% of regular users don't). 2. Nobody reads them because most of the time they are explicitly user hostile, I'm pretty sure they are designed to prevent users from reading them.

Yes! Even when I try to read the terms of service, I find them hard to understand. I feel bad because it’s sort of shame on me for agreeing to stuff blindly. User hostile is a good way of putting it.
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