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Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

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Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#221

Post by Maskawanian »

detaro wrote: post #216
Maskawanian wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see that HN has devolved into Reddit where downvoting is used for disagreement instead of replying. It was a good run, but every site eventually jumps the shark.

"devolved into"? Unlike reddit, the official position on HN (although a good chunk of the community disagrees with it) has always been that downvoting for disagreement is ok, back from when pg did run the site.

If that is true, HN is rotten to the core. Down voting to disagree simply causes an echo chamber.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#222

Post by Maskawanian »

thomaslord wrote: post #218
Maskawanian wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to filter out people who are unwilling to put up money. Why waste money on a trial for someone who is unlikely to convert. You sound like someone who is hard to sell to, so it is in the interests of most companies to discourage you from participating.

Someone who's easy to sell to would just pay - free trials are there specifically to target people who are hard to sell to.

Maybe as a side effect, they are more for stopping credit card charge backs. Those who would never give a credit card are a waste of time. Best to filter those asap.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#223

Post by zepto »

dang wrote: post #220
zepto wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t make any comment on whether the person read the article. By ‘reading along’ I was referring to earlier places in this thread where the issue is already addressed, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23705338 If you have counted this as a violation of the site guidelines, please decrement the counter. What shortening is recommended in this case?

Well, that's a distinction without a difference. That guideline isn't technically just about reading an article vs. something else. HN is a spirit-of-the-law, not letter-of-the-law place. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... I would recommend just leaving out the first sentence. It's not clear that the comment loses anything by it. Alternatively, you could say "This issue is already address…

Ok, I’ll err on the side of not saying this kind of thing, however I note that simply ignoring the conversation so far and making an assertion that is clearly contradicted by an earlier commenter’s personal experience is at least as much of a violation of the spirit of decent conversational standards as expressing mild frustration at such behavior.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#224

Post by berkes »

valuearb wrote: post #180
hundchenkatze wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can you not see that auto-billing without reconfirming that the user actually wants to continue the subscription is also scammy? Why are you taking the side of a trillion dollar company that clearly knows how to extract money from users.

What is Apples reasoning for this requirement?

Apple is a company, hence the answer to any question "why does company X do Y" applies here too: for the bottomline. More Profit, direct or indirect.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#225

Post by zepto »

zepto wrote: post #223
dang wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's a distinction without a difference. That guideline isn't technically just about reading an article vs. something else. HN is a spirit-of-the-law, not letter-of-the-law place. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... I would recommend just leaving out the first sentence. It's not clear that the comment loses anything by it. Alternatively, you could say "This issue is already address…

Ok, I’ll err on the side of not saying this kind of thing, however I note that simply ignoring the conversation so far and making an assertion that is clearly contradicted by an earlier commenter’s personal experience is at least as much of a violation of the spirit of decent conversational standards as expressing mild frustration at such behavior.

I’m also going to just say for the record: I think it is clear that I neither violated the spirit of the rule, nor the letter of it.

It’s also simply not reasonable to say I made a distinction without a difference.

We know that a lot of people engage with the comments on HN without fully reading the source material, and this is now expected behavior. This makes the guideline as written a good way to avoid a common and unproductive antipattern.

However there is a clear difference between not fully reading the source material and not reading the comments you are replying to.

If you want the rule to cover both cases, then you should update it to do so.

A rule like ‘don’t make inferences about other commenters knowledge or understanding of the post or the thread - but rather address this through commenting on the meaning of their statements’ would cover this and a host of other issues, but the one you have used simply does not.

Your suggestion - “This is addressed unthread” can be a dismissal (especially if inaccurate) that is significantly more offensive than “sounds like you aren’t reading along”.

“How can it be objectively user hostile, if someone such as csunbird loves it?”

Would fit this rubric.

In any case, something seems off about this particular moderator intervention.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#226

Post by greggman3 »

thoraway1010 wrote: post #122
black_puppydog wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* consistently user hostile

Except it is very user friendly. Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. They send you an email saying, here's what will be renewing soon, cli…

It would be even more user friendly if it just popped up a message "You're free trial period has ended, would you like to subscribe?" People here seem to be claiming Apple will send you a message except it will be passive in that if you do nothing you're money will be taken. There are so many reasons I might miss that message, not the least of which is it being buried in all the other messages and notifications I get all day. Just make it opt-in instead of opt-out and suddenly it's super user friendly. In fact the companies can pause your subscription so if you don't get around to it the first time you interact after the free trial it's one click to subscribe and pick up where you left off.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#227

Post by dzhiurgis »

withinboredom wrote: post #183
kemayo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy, so long as you're either using a Mac or are on Windows and able to install iTunes. The subscription-billing-reminder email includes a "review your subscription" link, which opens up Music / iTunes to the relevant buried section. Really, I feel it should be available through icloud.com, but I couldn't find it anywhere. That'd avoid any of these issues where you need access to a non-phone device. ...v…

I moved to another continent, closed all my US accounts or left them empty. Apple considered me "delinquent" on my subscriptions and refused to let me switch my app store's country. It took being on the phone for over 8 hours before someone figured it out (I didn't know that was the issue) and they ended up writing off $12 to let me make the switch.

Took me 30 minutes to convince someone of fingerprint temperature meter fraud that tricked my dad into 100 buck subscription.

Apple prides into protecting customers, but when such issue appears you can’t do anything in the usual case deflection UI.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#228

Post by jquery »

mariopt wrote: post #39
numbers wrote: post #10

I don’t see why this is even a complaint... Apple sends users notifications before the trial ends and you can easily just cancel. I guess apps I’ve used already have this auto-billing implemented because I don’t think I’ve confirmed my subscription after the free trial ended and billing began.

How about using a trial and not having to worry about forgetting to cancel?

Nah, I don’t want an app nagging me to subscribe after I’ve already subscribed. That’s not a very “Apple” experience, goes against their philosophy of simple, clean design. Make it easy to cancel (which they’ve done). Perfect.
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