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Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

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Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#221

Post by jetrink »

IMAYousaf wrote: post #161

As someone with a huge photography itch and a gear nerd who actually isn't a practitioner, can someone with domain expertise in photography and cameras give some insights or predictions in to what they see as the future of photography? I have a sophomoric understanding of the shift from SLR --> DSLR --> Sony led Mirrorless cameras. Where do we go from here? How do things like Hasselblad's X1D II entry level medium fo…

My prediction is that full frame cameras will eventually be squeezed out by APS-C and medium format.

On one side, medium format cameras are shrinking in both size and price. The Canon 5D Mark IV is thicker, taller and heavier than Fuji's GFX 50R[1]. Medium format cameras aren't quite as small as full frame mirrorless cameras, but they are no longer impractically large either. If image quality is paramount, size and cost will no longer rule out medium format.

On the other side, APS-C cameras are now firmly in the 'good enough' area of the image quality curve - even for many professional applications - and they are continuing to improve. If you have other practical considerations and can do with lesser (but still excellent) image quality, APS-C will be your choice.

1. https://camerasize.com/compare/#682,805

Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#222

Post by bayindirh »

ISL wrote: post #71
akersten wrote: post #5

Sad to see them go - photography's such a great hobby and having competition in the space is healthy. There's a few brands out there still, but there is a noticable stigma in the professional community around equipment that isn't Canon. If you're not using L-glass, it feels like you get the same kind of judgement that Android users experience when they show up with green texts in iMessage. As a matter of principle, I…

To me, the big monoculture risk is Sony's image-sensor fab. As I understand it, Sony, Fuji, Nikon and many others all rely upon the output of one company's manufacturing process. There's a good reason for it -- they appear to make the very best sensors (edit: in terms of dynamic range and noise) in the commercial-camera market. Canon makes their own sensors, which are good in absolute but not relative terms, which ap…

Sony's image sensor fab business is a bit different.

First of all, there's two companies: Semiconductor and Imaging. Sony opens some of their technologies to other customers by transferring Imaging unit's patents to Semi and allows them for re-licensing. So, not everyone is using the same sensor even if they are coming out from the same fab.

Second, there's customer tailored sensor business. Sony can provide a customer a baseline to start and, customer can customize this sensor according to their needs and got it produced for themselves.

Lastly, there's strict division between customers in semiconductor side. So Sony Imaging can't access to specs and design of other customers' sensors.

How it works in real life?

- Sony A7 series use Sony's sensors with all their secrets at their disposal but, not with Nikon's and Fuji's secret sauces.

- Nikon orders customized, "Designed by Nikon" sensors to Sony Semi. Sony Imaging cannot access them (unless they buy and disassemble a Nikon Z).

- Same for Fuji. They have less rolling shutter in XT-4 for example, and it's again built by Sony, for Fuji. No, Sony Imaging can't play with them.

- Canon R5's sensor is "Designed by Canon". I'm not sure they are producing it. Sony or Tower Jazz maybe producing it. I don't know.

At the end of the day, the fab is almost one but, designs are many and diversified and, nobody can see each other's design. Like TSMC and Global Foundries.

Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#223

Post by asenna »

akersten wrote: post #5

Sad to see them go - photography's such a great hobby and having competition in the space is healthy. There's a few brands out there still, but there is a noticable stigma in the professional community around equipment that isn't Canon. If you're not using L-glass, it feels like you get the same kind of judgement that Android users experience when they show up with green texts in iMessage. As a matter of principle, I…

> .. there is a noticeable stigma in the professional community around equipment that isn't Canon

Really? I know this was sort of true a while back but Nikon has definitely caught up. In fact Nikon's D850 smoked the competition at the time and definitely has gained respect even in the Canon community.

I believe it's the video market that you might be referring to? Canon dominates this because of their AF system and Sony is now obviously established as well. Nikon and other's have usually been pretty lagging in terms of Video functionality.

Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#224

Post by dr_zoidberg »

ben7799 wrote: post #96
akersten wrote: post #5

Sad to see them go - photography's such a great hobby and having competition in the space is healthy. There's a few brands out there still, but there is a noticable stigma in the professional community around equipment that isn't Canon. If you're not using L-glass, it feels like you get the same kind of judgement that Android users experience when they show up with green texts in iMessage. As a matter of principle, I…

Pros love Canon cause their service stomps all over everyone else, the equipment is just the cherry on top. They're more like a partner in someone's business than just a retailer. Seriously.. their service is so fantastic & easy to work with it puts you at ease shooting with their expensive stuff. I think this has more to do with it than anything to do with sensors or almost anything else when it comes to really seri…

Some 10 years ago, they refurbished a PowerShot A75 of mine that my father had bought in 2004. 5 years after fabrication, they identified a couple of batches that had been produced with bad sensors, and the cameras affected died a strange death.

I had lost all warranty papers, but my local photography shop insisted that I contacted Canon. Had to leave the camera on the official service office, and a month later I had to go and pick it up. The camera was good as new, they even cleaned it up and fixed a few mechanical issues in the lens. No papers needed, it was a Canon camera, the issue was a manufacturing defect, they were practically honor bound to fix it.

That day I decided I'd keep buying Canon for a while. Two cameras later, after buying a G12 and a G16 I decided to go for an Olympus OM-D EM-10. The camera is great and I love, but it sure stings to see them leave the market.

Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#225

Post by codazoda »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #185

Sad, I agree with the article though that they made some rather curious choices that didn't help their prospects. I still have a Camedia C3030 Zoom for some reason with all the doo-dads (extra flash extension, XM memory cards) it had an awesome F2.8 lens and could take very nice pictures @ 3MP. I replaced it with an C5050 Zoom that had an F1.8 lens but gave that one away when I replaced it with a Canon SD550 (which f…

I just have a simple DSLR from Canon, which says it has WiFi, but the wifi experience is so poor it's not really usable.

I guess my point is that if they add a phone, it won't make phone calls without a lot of stress, so you probably won't use it.

Edit: I realize that adding a phone is a joke.

Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#226

Post by meowzero »

da02 wrote: post #203
meowzero wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it depends on the industry? I've dabbled part-time, almost went full-time. Photographers were intrigued I used a Fuji, but they didn't care beyond that. Clients didn't care either as long as you delivered results. And you're right, most high-end photos take amazing photos. There's some variance in their color science, but most can take near-identical photos. I think the main differentiator among the camera is h…

How come you didn't go into pro photography full-time? What did you do instead? Any downsides to using Fuji ecosystem?

I was a fashion photographer. I lived in a small market. To take the "next step" I would've needed to move to NYC or another big market. Also, I was getting paid a lot in my day-job to make that type of sacrifice. And it wasn't like I hated my day-job. I'm also risk adverse and not in my 20's to make that huge leap in my life. I also hustled hard and got burnt out. I stopped and started phasing out my clients.

I didn't see any downsides to using the Fuji ecosystem. I loved it. Every time I found something that might be disadvantageous in my line of work, they fixed it (eg. Capture One support). In fact, if I were to have upgraded, I would've gotten their medium format camera.

Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#227

Post by Polylactic_acid »

cialowicz wrote: post #217
barbegal wrote: post #31

Photography is one of those areas where devices don't go obsolete very quickly. With a good lens from 50 years ago I can still take an excellent photo on a digital camera from 15 years ago. Sure you won't have all the bells and whistles of the latest cameras and you'll sacrifice a few stops of dynamic range but for the average hobby photographer that doesn't really matter. The only customers who will upgrade every fe…

I'd argue that cameras don't really ever go obsolete, given the artistic nature of photography (as long as you can get the image out of the camera and onto a medium). Any great photo that you've ever admired was take on either previous or current generation gear.

In my eyes a camera is obsolete as soon as the average phone can take a photo as good. My parents got a $300 sony camera recently but other than zoom, I just can't see why you would carry it around when your phone takes the same photo.

Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#229

Post by ISL »

bayindirh wrote: post #222
ISL wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the big monoculture risk is Sony's image-sensor fab. As I understand it, Sony, Fuji, Nikon and many others all rely upon the output of one company's manufacturing process. There's a good reason for it -- they appear to make the very best sensors (edit: in terms of dynamic range and noise) in the commercial-camera market. Canon makes their own sensors, which are good in absolute but not relative terms, which ap…

Sony's image sensor fab business is a bit different. First of all, there's two companies: Semiconductor and Imaging. Sony opens some of their technologies to other customers by transferring Imaging unit's patents to Semi and allows them for re-licensing. So, not everyone is using the same sensor even if they are coming out from the same fab. Second, there's customer tailored sensor business. Sony can provide a custom…

Totally agreed, but if that one fab company falls over, much of the imaging industry has a problem. That's the monoculture.

Re: Olympus quits camera business after 84 years

#230

Post by Nelson69 »

meowzero wrote: post #126

It was a matter of time. They were focused on m4/3, which was a good system. But phone technology evolved quickly. Most pros or prosumers go for the higher-end APSC or Full Frame lineups. In my experience, they don't take the m4/3 stuff seriously. For regular folks, m4/3 is too expensive. For the same price, they can use their phones (or buy an APSC camera). The quality is negligible thanks to all the software enhanc…

>> Pentax is probably in trouble too. They don't even have mirrorless offerings.

I think just about all of the older guard are in trouble. Things sounded pretty ominous for Nikon last year and I'm sure COVID-19 isn't helping camera sales. https://petapixel.com/2019/11/12/nikon-says-its-cameras-need...

Phones keep getting better.

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