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Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

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Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#221

Post by lizmat »

senthilnayagam wrote: post #165

Perl 6 with parrot VM was expecting release in 2004, we had some portion of our code in perl. other portions were in php4. chose ruby due to rails announcement in 2004. will wait for actual release will try on some pet project

Perl 6 actually got released in December 2015. Meanwhile it got renamed to Raku (https://raku.org using the #rakulang tag on social media). You don't have to wait anymore to be able to use it on a pet, or even a business project. Check out the Rakudo Weekly News if you want to stay up-to-date: https://rakudoweekly.blog

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#222

Post by Grinnz »

noisy_boy wrote: post #83
foobar_ wrote: post #64

This is just bad maintenance. Just pick all the stuff people are complaining about and fix it! 1. Improve threads 2. Improve C API support 3. Give local::lib, cpanm by default ... multiple perl versions by default 4. Give direct support for coroutines / async await 5. Mark experimental features as non-experimental (attributes, signatures) 6. Pick an OO system, package system 7. Make switch cool again 8. Get more core…

One more: add a proper exception handling setup.

This is planned.

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#223

Post by laichzeit0 »

staycoolboy wrote: post #116
jes5199 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh. I spent a couple years writing perl professionally, I guess that was around 2006, and I couldn't agree less. Its object system is so bizarre compared to any other language - it's like it doesn't really have an object system, it has parts of a system that you can try to assemble, but no matter what you do you end up with something weird. And on top of that, the sigils, refs, and `wantarray` systems means that fig…

Perl was my first encounter with regular expressions. To this day, no language I've used does it better and cleaner. This includes Python, Boost/C++, Java, JavaScript, LISP, Go and Rust.

Agreed. Regex is a “part of the language” not a bolt on library like you have in Python. It’s one of those cases where you don’t even know how crap regex is in another language if you’ve never used Perl.

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#224

Post by swimfar »

hyperbovine wrote: post #207
cafard wrote: post #164

I have used Perl since the Perl 4 days. One can write bad Perl, and I've written a lot. One can write good Perl, and I've written some. It has saved me and others quite a lot of time on assorted projects. These days I tend to use Python where once I'd have used Perl. This is mostly because I find that the young are far more likely to know Python than to know Perl. I will be retiring one of these days, after all.

I don't think it's necessarily generational. Perl and Python differ in a key regard: Perl went all in on TIMTOWTDI, whereas Python went in the complete opposite direction: enforced whitespace, minimal syntax, strong use of conventions and idioms. (When was the last time you heard somebody inquiring about the Perl-ic way to write something?) As a result, a lot of Perl code is an unreadable mess, and many Python progra…

TIMTOWTDI="There is more than one way to do it"

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#225

Post by lilSebastian »

bhaavan wrote: post #15

This feels like a last ditch attempt to save a dying language. ( https://i.imgflip.com/4676mf.jpg ) I wonder what exactly does Perl bring to the table as a language, why would one consider choosing it over other languages.

Of you're depending on a meme rather than making a valid point, I wonder what you are bringing to this particular table.

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#226

Post by lizmat »

7thaccount wrote: post #154
jes5199 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh. I spent a couple years writing perl professionally, I guess that was around 2006, and I couldn't agree less. Its object system is so bizarre compared to any other language - it's like it doesn't really have an object system, it has parts of a system that you can try to assemble, but no matter what you do you end up with something weird. And on top of that, the sigils, refs, and `wantarray` systems means that fig…

The Moose library is a pretty advanced OO library that was inspired by Common Lisp's CLOS & Smalltalk I think. Most Perl developers I know use a large amount of libraries as the language itself is lacking in many areas. A lot of people are fine with that, but I prefer kitchen-sink languages which are fairly opinionated.

At least one of the inspirations of Moose, was the object system of Perl 6 at the time (now Raku https://raku.org using the #rakulang tag on social media). To create a Point class that has an x and a y attribute, you'd write:

    class Point {
        has $.x;
        has $.y;
    }
Object instantiation is then done with:

    Point.new(x => 42, y => 666);

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#227

Post by lizmat »

jrockway wrote: post #126
cutler wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perl lost the war because it didn't turn-up for the battle. In the 2000s it went into a kind of COVID19 self-isolation phase. First there was Parrot - a half-assed attempt to create a CLR for dynamic languages. When that failed the MoarVM adventure began. There were about 3 implemetations of Perl6 in development simultaneously (MoarVM, JVM & Rakudo) as Perl5 hemorrhaged mindshare. All-in-all it took 15 years to produ…

Yeah, Perl 6 was certainly A Thing. I am not sure practicing Perl programmers cared much about it. I went to the talks and thought "neat" but it didn't really seem like "welp, this is taking forever, I'm switching to Python." Maybe if everyone working on Perl 6 decided to work on data science tooling instead, Perl would have "beaten" Python in that area and things would be different, but the world doesn't really work…

Perl 6 is still very much a thing, but it's called Raku now (https://raku.org using the #rakulang tag on social media). It has a weekly blog post https://rakudoweekly.blog should you care to want to stay up-to-date!

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#228

Post by sysread »

laichzeit0 wrote: post #223
staycoolboy wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perl was my first encounter with regular expressions. To this day, no language I've used does it better and cleaner. This includes Python, Boost/C++, Java, JavaScript, LISP, Go and Rust.

Agreed. Regex is a “part of the language” not a bolt on library like you have in Python. It’s one of those cases where you don’t even know how crap regex is in another language if you’ve never used Perl.

You should check out janet-lang.org. It's got built in peg parsing.

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#229

Post by lizmat »

staycoolboy wrote: post #116
jes5199 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh. I spent a couple years writing perl professionally, I guess that was around 2006, and I couldn't agree less. Its object system is so bizarre compared to any other language - it's like it doesn't really have an object system, it has parts of a system that you can try to assemble, but no matter what you do you end up with something weird. And on top of that, the sigils, refs, and `wantarray` systems means that fig…

Perl was my first encounter with regular expressions. To this day, no language I've used does it better and cleaner. This includes Python, Boost/C++, Java, JavaScript, LISP, Go and Rust.

If you're interested in improved regular expressions, I wuold suggest you have a look at Raku's regular expressions and grammars (formerly known as Perl 6): https://docs.raku.org/language/regexes

Re: Perl 7 is going to be Perl 5.32, mostly

#230

Post by jcranmer »

kazinator wrote: post #198
BruceEel wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a Microsoft fan, but simple C / Windows API code from 25 years ago would likely compile and run on Windows 10 unchanged. My limited experience with Swift suggests that even 25 hours ago could be a tall order...

Moreover, a Windows .exe compiled 25 years ago will also likely just run.

25 years ago is 1995, and around the release of Windows 95, the first 32-bit version of Windows.

A .exe compiled 25 years ago would probably be a 16-bit executable, and Windows stopped supporting Win16 code in Windows 7. WINE theoretically supports it, but 16-bit userspace code and a 64-bit kernel do not mix well.

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