If you see the cops, start recording • Hacker News Board

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#221

Post by cwkoss » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #206

cwkoss wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what percentage of police dispatches do they arrive on scene while an armed suspect is still there? I would guess it's significantly lower than 50% Sure, send armed cops to handle situations that force is likely to needed. But cops don't need guns to take down police reports. Rape victims don't need armed officers to take down police reports. Property crime victims don't need armed officers to take down police rep…

Unless you can tell me ahead of time which police reports are going to end in violence, I suggest you reconsider your thinking. Sometimes something as innocent as a speeding ticket turns into a shooting. Watch some episodes of actual police incidents. Drunk people can be armed. Domestically abused people can live in dangerous neighborhoods with gangs present. Sorry, a camera is not going to defend you from the Latin…

> Watch some episodes of actual police incidents.

It sounds like your perspective is formed form viewing the TV show "Cops". This is not representative of reality.

106 police officers died while on duty in 2018 (of all causes, not just violence from public - 55 officers were feloniously killed while 51 died accidentally). 986 citizens were fatally shot by police in the same year.

Situations where police are able to survive only because they were able to quickdraw and shoot a criminal first like some sort of cowboy are vanishingly rare and possibly purely fantasy. Is trading the lives of a few hundred citizens worth saving the 0-2 cops in these rare situations per year?

Call in the cavalry when needed, but most cops do not need to be armed all the time.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#222

Post by evan_ » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

mod wrote: post #38

tbabb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of departments in other countries do not carry guns and do their jobs just fine.

That's not evidence that it could be done in the US.

not that it's really an argument for or against but if you try to tell cops that they can't carry guns, they'll all just carry their own personal guns.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#223

Post by Ductapemaster » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

mainframe-mess wrote: post #94

travjones wrote: post #4

Cops may ask you not to record and even threaten you with arrest for recording. Do not be intimidated; it is your right to record without obstructing. If you find yourself in a situation where you might be detained and thereby unable to control interactions with your device, on iPhone you can disable TouchID and FaceID by holding one of the volume buttons and the sleep/wake button simultaneously for a few seconds. Th…

All you have to hold is the power button to disable Touch ID. Adding the volume button does nothing additional on my iPhone 8.

You have to do power + volume down to get to that screen if you have a phone with no Touch ID (iPhone X and above). Just confirmed on mine.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#224

Post by garlicGum » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #21

cwkoss wrote: post #6

I think half of the police force should be 'armed' with nothing more than cameras. Arrests are not necessary in the vast majority of situations police are called for, and recording technology is far superior to verbal testimony for serving our courts

Cops carry guns because the situation can always get out of hand. Violent criminals still exist in society. EDIT: the ignorant people claiming average police officer does not deal with violent criminals have obviously never worked as a first responder. They deal with rape, suicide, murder, assault, domestic abuse, robbery, every week unless they're some small town cop in a gilded neighborhood. The cops in St. Louis,…

They take a job to protect the community. That would seem they are accepting the danger that comes with the job, but for the low low price of a gun they are passing that danger on to you! Yay!

Right now, cops are legal bullies that we have to suffer under.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#225

Post by s1artibartfast » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:14 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #158

mamurphy wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would anyone do differently in their shoes? It sounds like they volunteered for a task force, and would be facing individual liability with no assistance from their union if sued for any work resulting from staying on the task force. If you volunteered to program the Foo system at your job, and your company announced that you would be individually liable for any losses anyone suffered for your further work on Foo sys…

On the other hand, if I assaulted or murdered someone at work I wouldn't expect them to cover for me. Really the issue is one of process. Was shoving the guy to the ground and leaving him there a normal procedure for dealing with the alleged offense? If so, it's the department's fault and the superiors are negligent. If not, they failed to follow process and caused a death, so they should be individually liable for a…

>On the other hand, if I assaulted or murdered someone at work I wouldn't expect them to cover for me.

Future allegations may or may not be true. Even officers who follow all procedures want legal defense against false or questionable accusations.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#226

Post by chrisco255 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #221

chrisco255 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you can tell me ahead of time which police reports are going to end in violence, I suggest you reconsider your thinking. Sometimes something as innocent as a speeding ticket turns into a shooting. Watch some episodes of actual police incidents. Drunk people can be armed. Domestically abused people can live in dangerous neighborhoods with gangs present. Sorry, a camera is not going to defend you from the Latin…

> Watch some episodes of actual police incidents. It sounds like your perspective is formed form viewing the TV show "Cops". This is not representative of reality. 106 police officers died while on duty in 2018 (of all causes, not just violence from public - 55 officers were feloniously killed while 51 died accidentally). 986 citizens were fatally shot by police in the same year. Situations where police are able to s…

No, I come from a family of first responders. Paramedics, firefighters and cops.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/12/27/police-deaths...

144 died in 2018. 96 already in 2020 and we're not half done.

https://www.odmp.org/search/year

986 citizens, of which 47 were un-armed. Twisting stats to feed your narrative won't change reality.

They're only vanishingly rare in the least dangerous neighborhoods, which incidentally need less policing than the most dangerous ones such as St. Louis, Memphis, and Baltimore.

Yes, armed people threatening innocent lives deserve to be shot and killed. You can't wait for the cavalry when someone is armed and dangerous. If you're police you are the cavalry.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#227

Post by api » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:17 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #69

api wrote: post #23

"Why are you worried about surveillance if you have nothing to hide?"

You are probably being downvoted because of the oft-repeated argument in favor of surveillance of citizens by some form of authority. However it's interesting how flipping that argument around would cause all sorts of discomfort by the very people who advocated it in the other direction. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that was in fact the point you were making.)

That was exactly my point. This is what people should tell the police in this situation. It didn't get across.

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#228

Post by balaksakrionon » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #221

chrisco255 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you can tell me ahead of time which police reports are going to end in violence, I suggest you reconsider your thinking. Sometimes something as innocent as a speeding ticket turns into a shooting. Watch some episodes of actual police incidents. Drunk people can be armed. Domestically abused people can live in dangerous neighborhoods with gangs present. Sorry, a camera is not going to defend you from the Latin…

> Watch some episodes of actual police incidents. It sounds like your perspective is formed form viewing the TV show "Cops". This is not representative of reality. 106 police officers died while on duty in 2018 (of all causes, not just violence from public - 55 officers were feloniously killed while 51 died accidentally). 986 citizens were fatally shot by police in the same year. Situations where police are able to s…

"It sounds like your perspective is formed form viewing the TV show "Cops". This is not representative of reality."

That's a poor and unnecessary assumption. Just in the last handful of years there has been a proliferation of good quality bodycam footage that gives unprecedented insight into police encounters. It would be more charitable to ask where the commenter's perspective is coming from.

"Situations where police are able to survive only because they were able to quickdraw and shoot a criminal first like some sort of cowboy are vanishingly rare and possibly purely fantasy."

It sounds like you may be the one who needs some experience watching body cam footage and reading about incidents. Just off the top, here is a quick refutation of your "fantasy" statement (and there are many more like it):

https://www.bitchute.com/video/obyWX8Wojk6l/

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#229

Post by colejohnson66 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:21 PM UTC

craftinator wrote: post #188

dominotw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no "mistake" here. I wasn't talking about this specific case though, not sure how you inferred that from my comment that shoving old man was a mistake . I was talking about a hypothetical case where it was indeed a mistake.

Great, well in this case, this cop acted violently and aggressively towards a senior citizen, who was killed through that cop's action. Not murder, but definitely manslaughter. If you did that to someone, that's what you would be going to jail for, and rightly so.

Not at all excusing what happened, but was he actually killed? I thought he was taken to a hospital and recovered?

Re: If you see the cops, start recording

#230

Post by notriddle » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:21 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #162

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s kind of like the “virtual walkouts” that tech employees due.

A little off topic, but I wonder if we've reached the point where only some trivially tiny proportion of people who aren't poor can reasonably walk away from their employment. Yes, in an ideal world, people would stand up for an issue no matter what it cost them. But right now in America 2020, unless you're already poor, maybe it's just really difficult to take that type of a stand? Probably why, across the political…

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/technology/facebook-emplo...

> Many of the employees, who said they refused to work in order to show their support for demonstrators across the country, added an automated message to their digital profiles and email responses saying that they were out of the office in a show of protest.

I'm pretty sure Facebook's "virtual walk-out" was virtual because they were all working from home. They still stopped working, en mass, for the day. They still risked being fired, and they still negatively impacted the company's productivity.

They just didn't actually walk out of the office because they never physically went to the office in the first place.