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But no, 80-column terminals in 2020 isn't “reasonable” any more

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Re: But no, 80-column terminals in 2020 isn't “reasonable” any more

#221
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of terminals just set that as the default window width. No real reason for it, I usually snap to half the screen width immediately anyways. That turns out to about 105-120 characters width. Some people might just not resize it most of the time. Especially on Mac where efficient window management just isn't a thing.

A note on your last sentence. Once I used my Win10 laptop at an interview at Apple. The interviewer saw me drag one window the the side, snap it, and then select another window to fill in the space. He said, wow, Windows is really nice! :)

Macs have been doing that for ages.

Re: But no, 80-column terminals in 2020 isn't “reasonable” any more

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy a bigger monitor. Or get glasses. I'm 38, rocking a 43" 4k monitor. There's so much room. Scale things up or down to your comfort level. It's a pleasure if you use an editor like atom.

> I'm 38, rocking a 43" 4k monitor. There's so much room. There's no more room on a 43" 3840 x 2160 monitor than there is on a 32" 3840 x 2160...

That's fine. The point is that the font size is no issue at 43". Could be really small, you'd still be able to see it well.

Re: But no, 80-column terminals in 2020 isn't “reasonable” any more

#224
I don't get it. 80 columns was always short but it forced you to think about your code when it got too long.

Contextually local variable names which go far above 10 characters and contextually local function names which go far above 20 characters are almost always misnamed. Nobody should struggle to fit at least within about 100 characters when they're focusing their code on clarity and simplicity.

Obviously this doesn't mean that you should rename your buf_size variable to bsz or s. But you buf_size variable in a function called read_line shouldn't need to be called line_buffer_size and if there's only one buffer should potentially just be called size.

Then there's people in this post claiming that research relating to readability of text don't apply to code because people don't read whole lines. I only have to wonder if these people have ever read code they didn't write on that same day or from a codebase they're already very familiar with. I read a lot of code, it's part of my job, I need to read the whole lines so I can verify that there's nothing horribly wrong. It makes it incredibly difficult to read expressions when they can't fit within my visual field.

Yes, hard-wrapping code is not great, it should be avoided and only done with a good bit of experience, insight and awareness of how it's going to affect the code. Regularly making your code 150 lines long because your variables are repeatedly telling me information I could have just gathered from looking two lines up and because your function names are descriptions of the behaviour of the code they contain isn't a great look either.

Although I still think that my least readable experience was having to read and work with code which used a 2 space indent (and an editor which wouldn't let me fix this in any way) which regularly went 10 levels deep and 100s of lines long.

Re: But no, 80-column terminals in 2020 isn't “reasonable” any more

#225
post #147
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice you get problems, because of the line length rule. I.e. if your editor is configured with four-space tabs and a line with one leading tab shows up in your editor having 79 characters, it will show up as 83 characters for others assuming the normal 8-space tabs thus breaking the line length rule. Not to mention that coding style may require that function calls broken to 2 lines must have the arguments alig…

>Not to mention that coding style may require that function calls broken to 2 lines must have the arguments aligned at the opening parenthesis. That doesn't result in any problems with using s, unless the coding style also requires you to replace all (leading) sequences of N spaces with with a , which is, IMO, quite brain-dead. For example, if (cond) { foo(1, 2); } looks fine regardless of the width of . Admittedly,…

> unless the coding style also requires you to replace all (leading) sequences of N spaces with with a , which is, IMO, quite brain-dead

It is brain-dead, but that is exactly what is required in many styles.

Re: But no, 80-column terminals in 2020 isn't “reasonable” any more

#228
Here in JavaScript land, we have Prettier and can configure the line limit to be whatever we want on our local editor and whatever else we want when we save the saved file, making this entire discussion irrelevant.

Its time for more development tools to be built with individual developer in mind, adaptable to their workflow and needs. See for example https://old.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/c8drjo/nobody_t...

Re: But no, 80-column terminals in 2020 isn't “reasonable” any more

#229
post #49

The problem with overly wide lines is that it hurts readability because it's harder to find the next line when scanning your eyes from right back to left. Take it from the world of books: This study may be helpful: > This study examined the effects of line length on reading performance. Reading rates were found to be fastest at 95 cpl. Readers reported either liking or disliking the extreme line lengths (35 cpl, 95 c…

> The problem with overly wide lines is that it hurts readability because it's harder to find the next line when scanning your eyes from right back to left. There is some truth to this, but it's largely irrelevant. When text is laid out for books, it's based on a fixed width and each sentence follows the next. Code isn't laid out that way, with code, each statement starts on a new line which naturally limits line wid…

> If your average line of code is wider than 80 characters, it's likely you have some other, bigger coding style problems

In math-heavy stuff, lines tend to be longer. You are usually trying to convert one line of math into one line of code. I myself shoot for 160 character columns.

See, e.g. [1].

[1] https://docs.fast.ai/dev/style.html

Re: But no, 80-column terminals in 2020 isn't “reasonable” any more

#230
post #49

The problem with overly wide lines is that it hurts readability because it's harder to find the next line when scanning your eyes from right back to left. Take it from the world of books: This study may be helpful: > This study examined the effects of line length on reading performance. Reading rates were found to be fastest at 95 cpl. Readers reported either liking or disliking the extreme line lengths (35 cpl, 95 c…

> The problem with overly wide lines is that it hurts readability because it's harder to find the next line when scanning your eyes from right back to left. There is some truth to this, but it's largely irrelevant. When text is laid out for books, it's based on a fixed width and each sentence follows the next. Code isn't laid out that way, with code, each statement starts on a new line which naturally limits line wid…

Tell that to 'functional programming' people, or the lambda-crazy people who put entire functions in argument lists to the point you can't parse a statement to save your soul. I've had to print and highlight code to figure out where it began and ended.
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