Shopify Goes Digital by Default • Hacker News Board

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#221

Post by wtetzner » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #176

r00fus wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people who work at these companies live in big cities where they don't have huge amounts of space and it's not conducive to being productivity, particularly if you live with other people, if you can't get some form of separation. Could this be the tipping point to a sustained exodus from an urban kind of lifestyle? (spoken as someone who likes/values density)

The idea that this will result in an exodus from urban areas presupposes that jobs are the reason people moved to the urban areas, rather than social, leisure, or cultural reasons. That's highly arguable. Young people like cities, that's where the girls and the parties are. That's been true for a really long time.

It may result in a shuffling of people between big cities. Instead of living near your job, you can pick the city you like based on other criteria.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#222

Post by cletus » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

kjakm wrote: post #173

cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

>> I of course miss the meals and snacks. I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home? >> Many people who work at these companies live in big cities where they don't have huge amounts of space and it's not conducive to being productivity, particularly if you live with other people, if you can't get some form of separation. Do you live in that space because…

> I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home?

Of course I can but I just don't want to. This isn't about being cheap or lazy (although I'm guilty of both to varying degrees). The biggest benefit of having a catered office is the lack of having to make a decision about what to eat. I'll just eat what they're serving that day.

I'm a big believer in decision fatigue [1]. Don't make me make decisions about things I don't care about and what I have for lunch is one of those. For years I worked in offices where I either had to bring in my own lunch (never gonna happen) or I had to go out and buy it. I'm fine with the cost of it. I'm not fine with choosing where to go and what to order when I get there. I'll end up finding something I like and just getting it every day until I get sick of it because that's let cognitive load than having something different every day.

That's why I like a catered office.

> Or you could move to a cheaper location and have a nice home office.

I live in NYC because I want to live in NYC. I chose the job because it's in NYC where I wanted to live. On a side note, I think this is the fundamental difference with the Bay Area. hardly anyone wants to live in the Bay Area. They want to work for [Google|FB|Apple|...] and to do that they need to live in the Bay Area. Most other places people have decided they want to live there and then look for work options.

So yeah, I could buy a big house Georgia but... why would I want to?

[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-fr...

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#223

Post by code4tee » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

Most going this direction are, rightly, treading WFM as people treated travel reductions. Few are saying you never work face to face for any reason ever... but it shouldn’t be the default without any reason. For better or worse the days of just turning up at an office everyday by default are likely over in many places.

Same with travel. Default should be a Zoom (or similar) but if an in person meeting or workshop is warranted then do it and just be prepared to justify the travel cost. Offices are very expensive so rightfully so companies are re-evaluating how much commercial real estate they truly need to execute their mission successfully.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#224

Post by BoysenberryPi » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

I really enjoy working from home however I have realized that I have become increasingly unhappy with the communication on my team. Getting answers to simple yes/no questions takes hours. Someone will ask me a question, I'll reply within a few seconds asking for clarification and then radio silence for the next 90 minutes. Personally, I also feel that I'm learning less in some areas.

This is not a commentary on WFH in general but I think most people who endorse 100% remote work do the type of work where they get their assignment and then go sit in the corner and bang it out with headphones on and not the type of work that requires active communication and collaboration.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#225

Post by ponker » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

newfeatureok wrote: post #90

Remote-first is the future. I'm not sure why anyone would be against it. No one is forcing you to work from home. From a compliance and operations perspective a remote-first company is effectively forced to do a lot of things many companies do not or will not undertake: - Make meetings accessible to everyone - Communicate more effectively and transparently internal to the organization (and even externally, for the ad…

NYC office space is not $100/sqft/month. You are off by more than an order of magnitude. Please avoid fake news.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#226

Post by carierx1 » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

bamazizi wrote: post #191

Consider the domino effect of these decisions. With WFH culture rising: (Disclosure, I'm 100% in favour of WFH and been doing it for past ~5 years) - Commute time is reduced to seconds/minutes - Driving or taking public transportation plummets - Fuel consumption is vastly reduced, taking care of Pollution as well - Rush hour peaks flattens. might still have traffic, but it won't be because of volume of cars. like fro…

Great breakdown. WFH really is better at a societal level. The people complaining about it are tremendously self absorbed.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#227

Post by tomatotomato37 » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

anarbadalov wrote: post #51

This one is behind a paywall and i'm not a Bloomberg subscriber. Here's a long article published today at Vox that gets into this: https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/5/21/21234242/coronavirus-co... "A survey of senior finance leaders by research firm Gartner found that 74 percent of organizations plan to shift some employees to remote work permanently. Consulting company Global Workplace Analytics estimates that when th…

I've found that my work-life balance has simultaneously improved and worsened - I have more free time to relax, but I still end up working at like 10pm because I end up spending too much time binging Netflix or whatever and have to quickly make up the work. It's like I'm slowly reverting to my college days

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#228

Post by andreilys » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

“ Many people who work at these companies live in big cities where they don't have huge amounts of space and it's not conducive to being productivity, particularly if you live with other people, if you can't get some form of separation”

If you have a remote first company, it means your employees can actually move somewhere that they can settle down and own a house.

And yes if it’s mixed WFH and on-site then of course the remote workers will lose out. But both Shopify and twitter are doing perm remote for all employees, creating an even playing field.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#229

Post by foobiekr » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

fourmyle wrote: post #137

People are going to change their tune once the paycuts start coming. There is no reason to pay SF money to someone living in the Midwest. $80k a year is comfortable most places. I hope remote first people like the suburbs and country because there is no reason to live in the city with no office. The real truth though is most people are far less productive remote because it requires proactive communication and self di…

Right now, there is _zero_ reason for companies not to announce permanent work from home. It gets them positive attention and makes them part of the buzz. They are already paying the comp they are paying.

Putting aside the fact that these policies can change on a dime (it's really "permantnet work from home _for now_"), what's really crazy is that people are seriously planning to take companies at their word and are considering leaving the Bay Area and are assuming they are taking their Bay Area comp with them.

Ok, cases:

1. company does NOT to geo-based adjustment to any current employee, but DOES use adjusted salaries for new ones (in other words, path-dependent compensation). Two people, same job, different compensation. This is not that unusual in other industries but can be a source of serious resentment. Suppose a bay area employee moves to India..

2. company uses relocated employees to establish new comp packages for those geos - this will only go so far. many cases will be employees moving to less expensive areas.

3. company sets a "standard" compensation package world-wide that everyone gets - this is impossible to really execute on, or it will be very low relative to peer companies.

and so on. Employees who end up in a case 1 situation will find that after AVERAGE_TENURE they go looking for a new job and end up geo-adjusted. From a company perspective, this is a no-lose golden handcuffs situation and anyway the problem resolves itself quickly.

I tend to believe companies will walk this back as soon as covid-19 dies down, if not right away then as part of executive transitions where someone decides to "transform the business." But in the end it makes no difference - the long term trajectory, if it sticks around, is probably case (1) or some blend of (1) and (2). For developed nation engineers, case (3) is dire, the end of the career.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#230

Post by ianmobbs » Thu, May 21, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

kjakm wrote: post #173

cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

>> I of course miss the meals and snacks. I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home? >> Many people who work at these companies live in big cities where they don't have huge amounts of space and it's not conducive to being productivity, particularly if you live with other people, if you can't get some form of separation. Do you live in that space because…

Not OP. I've been providing my own meals and snacks working from home (like I'd imagine most people are?), but the free food at work is usually better/more expensive than I'm willing to make for myself for any given lunch, and I'm not big on spending money on snacks. The free food + the social interaction + the increased productivity I get from being in an office all make working in an office most of the time way better.