Solar’s Future is Insanely Cheap • Hacker News Board

Re: Solar’s Future is Insanely Cheap

#221

Post by ZeroGravitas » Tue, May 19, 2020, 2:55 PM UTC

opo wrote: post #137

remmargorp64 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All they need to do is build mechanical/hydraulic systems for storing solar power during the day and unleashing it at night. For example, use solar power during the day to pump fluid from a lower reservoir into a higher reservoir, and then harness the energy of the water flowing from the higher reservoir into the lower reservoir through turbines. As long as your output energy is always coming from the turbines, and a…

>...For example, use solar power during the day to pump fluid from a lower reservoir into a higher reservoir, and then harness the energy of the water flowing from the higher reservoir into the lower reservoir through turbines. Trying to rely only on intermittent power sources has huge storage requirements due to weather along with daily/seasonal variation. If grid energy storage was a simple problem it would have be…

If you want to make renewable storage seem ridiculous, you just model storage as if every electron generated is precious and can't be wasted and you get an answer like the above.

Overprovisioning is so simple and widely accepted a concept that anyone ignoring it is likely trying to intentionally mislead.

Re: Solar’s Future is Insanely Cheap

#222

Post by westurner » Sat, May 23, 2020, 3:49 AM UTC

blake1 wrote: post #81

sephamorr wrote: post #28

Power markets are more complicated than most people realize. One thing to note is that solar power can be cheaper than gas, but still not be economic. The fact of the matter is that an intermittent kWh is not as valuable as an on-demand reliable kWh to a utility who's number 1 priority is reliability. Even as solar is acquired at lower and lower prices, if evening power is generated by expensive and inefficient gas t…

As mentioned in the article, solar power is insanely cheap. So while you are right that a kWh of solar is not, on average, as valuable as a kWh of semidispatchable coal, the insane cheapness means that at some point, it is economical to massively overbuild renewable and decommission fossil fuel plants. You provide no evidence for the implausible claim that solar causes emissions to go up: your argument is only that t…

> if smart thermostats received price signals (maybe we should precool this house...) that would alleviate the evening ramp-up issue.

Is there an existing model for retail intraday rates? Would intraday rates be desirable for all market participants?

"Add area for curtailment data?" https://github.com/tmrowco/electricitymap-contrib/issues/236...

Re: Solar’s Future is Insanely Cheap

#223

Post by peterwoerner » Mon, May 25, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #178

peterwoerner wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the solution isn't batteries, it stored hydroelectric. Only works where you have mountains though.

How is that a solution when it's difficult to build more of it?

Its only the only economical solution currently. Orders of magnitude cheaper than other solutions.