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Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

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Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#221

Post by talmr »

valar_m wrote: post #11

Christy Lake, chief people officer at Twilio: > “It’s probably not great business practice to pay Bay Area comps in Michigan,” Lake says. And when it comes time to promote, would those employees have the same opportunity to advance as everybody else? “We need to think proactively,” she says. So, in case anyone is applying to Twilio, heads up, I guess.

To be fair -

I used to live in Ohio and my parents and I lived in a 2 bedroom apartment that cost $600/mo about fifteen years ago. You could buy a 5 bedroom house for $250k. The school district I attended was also top notch. It was a great family area and I remember the mall, rec center, and numerous parks.

I checked zillow recently and 5 bedroom homes are ~$300k and apartments are about $800/mo.

At the time, my dad was the sole breadwinner and he was earning about $40k a year.

I'm out in California right now making a comfortable six figure salary, but I can't really afford a 1+ million dollar house in a good area where I can send my future kids to school.

If I was earning even $100k a year, I could comfortably afford to live in that Ohio suburb about 15 miles from a major metro.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#222

Post by bpyne »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #151
_jal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> young, no kids, etc There is your major reason for that survey result. Companies with median-older workforces will see more enthusiasm for remote work.

In my company it’s the opposite. Every parent in the company is voicing very strong opinions to work from the office. The main issue seems to be that (a) they need full time childcare during the workday period, regardless of whether they are home or not, and (b) the childcare cannot take place inside the same house where they are working. The opinion I’ve heard most is that if it was non-pandemic times, at best they…

I'd love to know their children's ages. My experience is that people with kids under 12 have a very hard time working with the kids around. The kids just need more help. My daughter is 14. She goes into the room we setup for her each day, does her school work, attends Hangouts her teachers setup, and then entertains herself when her school day finishes. At lunch, we're able to eat as a family and go for a walk so working from home with her around is a pleasant experience.

An important factor is that my team works from home regularly so, when offices shut down, we were already setup for 100% remote work. People who haven't had time to really setup may have been overwhelmed for a bit.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#223

Post by mrep »

dougmwne wrote: post #25

It must be tempting to make even a short-term move out of the Bay area. If your lease is coming due and you were planning on looking for a new place anyway, why not move back in with family or get a short-term rental somewhere further out. Rents will likely be going down over the next few years, not up, so it's a terrible time to lock yourself into a new lease. And we can expect re-opening to happen slowly, so there…

If you are going to do this, I would first get it cleared with management because if you are moving states, it will change what state taxes they will have to pay for employing you.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#224

Post by phendrenad2 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #127
esotericn wrote: post #101

The pairing of working in an office with a hellish commute is a bit odd. Maybe SF really is a parallel universe. Here in the UK, basically anyone earning a tech salary can afford to live within 10-20 mins cycle of work, even if they want children. You won't have a home with a garden and all the rest of the knick knacks, sure, but that's a different discussion.

Most techies in SF could afford to live relatively close to work, or without roommates, or both. The reason why they don't is still due to the high rent though. When living with a roommate or two, or living a bit further away means you get an extra $1000+ a month to spend on other things, that can be very enticing.

This isn't true, at least of all the tech workers I've worked with. None of them could afford to live within a 30min commute of a downtown SF startup.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#225

Post by eyelidlessness »

smnrchrds wrote: post #116
ransom1538 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary based on your locale even though everyone is remote: hilarious. "Oh you live in Alabama you get 60k" "Oh you live in Manhattan on 65th street that is 150k". This will backfire into a political hell.

Gitlab famously does this, is very open about it [0], and in general has enjoyed more praise for their all remote structure than hell for their differing salaries. Maybe the companies won't rush to cut salaries of current employees who go remote and move elsewhere. But I fully expect them to offer new hires different salaries based on their location. After all, they already do that with their non-remote offices. It's…

I suspect one of the reasons there's not much complaint is that their base pay appears to be pretty high. A senior engineer who lives in South Dakota (either by preference or some life circumstance) is not likely to be too upset about a $100-140k salary.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#226

Post by qiguai »

aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

Was it anonymous? Who would want to notify their employer their intent to go remote? Especially a survey that could be to see whos against it.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#227

Post by lliamander »

take_a_breath wrote: post #112
caseysoftware wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen/heard different numbers from elsewhere: 20% want to work from home permanently 20% want to get back to the office full time 60% want flexibility somewhere in between Personally, I think the specific breakdown is less important than companies realizing that letting people be remote can improve work/life balance, reduces office space needs, and they have most of the infrastructure to support it. As an industr…

==reduces office space needs== While increasing their employees home-space needs. People will need bigger houses and apartments if everyone is going to work from home long-term.

If people have the option to work remotely, they're more likely going to move to places where land is plentiful and cheap.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#229

Post by ghaff »

hackissimo123 wrote: post #214
bradlys wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... $1000 for a fancy electric standing desk. $1000 for a fancy chair. $1000 for better monitors + arms. $200 for a keyboard. $100 for a mouse. We're looking at less than $3500 for a mid-level setup. The cost of a bit of equipment is a joke compared to the cost of another bedroom. Adding another room to a house is tens of thousands of dollars. Buying a home with another room is also the same cost or more depending…

Where the hell do you live and/or shop where a suitable office chair costs $1000?

That's the (more or less starting) price of a high-end Herman Miller chair like an Aeron or Embody. Which is simultaneously a lot of money and a very reasonable purchase for something you spend a lot of time in if you can afford it.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#230

Post by lliamander »

take_a_breath wrote: post #197
neutronicus wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which they will find, for the same price, out in the sticks when they don't need to drive in.

Which suggests we will need to build new houses to satisfy all the demand. Which is exactly the question I was asking. How will those housing needs differ from today's? Will homes need more space for offices? play areas? gardens? bathrooms? Will multi-generational housing come back in-style to support elderly?

It's a good point. Definitely the need for a separate office.

Another important discussion along those lines is the availability of fast, reliable internet.

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