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Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

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Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#221

Post by sheinsheish »

nchase wrote: post #182

I'm surprised to see so few (zero?) comments specifically about the content of the update. This is an _amazing_ release from a user's perspective. I'm a Logic user who creates modern sample-based music at a pretty rapid clip. The Quick Sampler here is pretty much perfect and it's what anyone would expect in 2020 – a tremendous replacement for EXS24. This was a long time coming and (IMO) makes Logic almost a no-braine…

After you hang around a bit more here, you won't be surprised anymore. Guys at HN have a specific way of destroying any good news or ideas...

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#222

Post by qmmmur »

basisword wrote: post #220
qmmmur wrote: post #121

I'm glad for all the logic users and students I have. If you want to get serious about making music I'd urge you to check out REAPER.

Why? I've been in a lot of studios and never seen Reaper used once. It's all Pro Tools and a surprising amount of Cubase. This is very much the same as "if you want to get serious about coding use VIM not VSCode".

Because its extensibility is enormous and it has a thriving community of people developing for it. The JSFX alone has made it possible to replicate thousands of dollars worth of dsp algorithms for everyone for free and The developers listen to concerns of the users. For me it's a DAW that represents longevity in a creative practice.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#223

Post by fit2rule »

kristiandupont wrote: post #217
fit2rule wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

REAPER has a great workflow. Its like the vim of DAW.

I read the GP comment and I was about to downvote. Then I read your comment and sat up in my chair. I use Ableton and I also play with Logic, FL and the occasional tracker. I would love to know what you mean with "the vim of DAW" and perhaps if there is a video or text that describes it?

Great hotkeys for everything .. just install it and give it a try. '?' key is your friend - from this you will learn the ways of the REAPER ... ;)

For tutorials: you need to get some Kenny Gioia in your viewing time. It will make the power of REAPER so much more clear:

http://www.kennymania.com/reaper-videos/

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#224

Post by fit2rule »

qmmmur wrote: post #148
dijksterhuis wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just reminded me about Reascripts. Now I know what I'm spending the rest of my lockdown doing.

If you're interested I have a load of scripts that access some command-line audio processing algorithms (non-negative matrix factorisation, harmonic percussive source separation) to do batch processing inside REAPER. https://github.com/jamesb93/reacoma

Thanks for thus - very cool bunch of scripts, highly useful!

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#225

Post by richrichardsson »

renaudg wrote: post #189
whatok wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does not have a clear and complete vision for their software. They consistently break things with OS and hardware updates. Many of the developers for audio applications are extremely small teams and cannot turn around updates at the drop of a dime when Apple decides to give them little notice that they're once again breaking shit. There is no "golden path" for pro audio on a Mac and that's evident in their desk…

> cannot turn around updates at the drop of a dime when Apple decides to give them little notice Which audio software developers are you talking about ? The ones that are given a chance in June each year to preview the latest OS like all other devs, but decide to turn a blind eye while most indie devs get to work and release steady updates over the summer ? And then, when asked in September if they're gonna be ready…

> extremely small teams

Did you just wilfully ignore that part because it doesn't fit with your diatribe?

Extremely small teams = 1 or 2 developers, that still have to be creating new software if they want income. Having to divert their energy to fixing something that Apple decided to break hurts their bottom line.

Regardless of if you think your position is correct, pro-audio users are starting to get tired of Apple's bullshit (which really only started around 10.13 onwards), and I see more and more non-Logic users willing to make the switch to Windows.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#226

Post by danpalmer »

briandear wrote: post #192
danpalmer wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other responses have made great points about why it's worth something, but I'll take another tack: I don't think it costs Apple much to do this. How much does it cost to keep Logic around? There's engineering/product/design costs, marketing, and training/selling costs in store. The training probably pays for itself and not many staff at Apple Stores are trained anyway. There's very little marketing, so it's entirely…

> As for the product/engineering/design, it's well known that Apple is pretty lean on these sorts of things and often has far smaller teams than outsiders expect. I could see this easily being no more than a team of 5 at this point, maybe less. You are wrong by several orders of magnitude.

I could well be, but do you have any more information/hypotheses about why they need 50-500 people working on Logic?

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#227

Post by sjwright »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #216
sjwright wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also awesome software only available for Windows, so I guess you can’t use that either. And there is awesome software only available for Linux, so that’s off the table too.

You missed my point because I wasn't very clear. Apple is actively trying to lock users into its ecosystem, and a few years ago I discovered how hard it was to switch. I have found that the time invested in learning how to use a tool is far more valuable than having a tool with a few more features. So with that in mind, I choose to invest my time and money learning how to use open source tools. I would much rather be…

You missed MY point. If you rely on ANY software which is only available on Windows—whether it's published by Microsoft or say BandLab—you are locked into Windows just as surely as Apple software locks you to MacOS.

Your rationale is valid for avoiding Logic Pro, but not MacOS.

I agree about open source, of course.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#228

Post by sjwright »

smabie wrote: post #211
sjwright wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also awesome software only available for Windows, so I guess you can’t use that either. And there is awesome software only available for Linux, so that’s off the table too.

I can't think of any awesome software that only runs on Linux. I can think of a couple examples of not-awesome software (systemd and wayland come to mind). What do you have in mind? Edit: Maybe WireGuard? But that's kind of niche.

If you qualify "running" to mean "I can run that executable somehow" then sure. I can use virtual machines and emulation to run anything anywhere.

If you qualify "running" to mean "runs well in an environment the developers will support", there is a lot of software that is only available for Linux.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#229

Post by Wowfunhappy »

londons_explore wrote: post #139
giancarlostoro wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would probably be sued for being anti competitive if they bought out all the DAW companies and did that.

Apple is not in a monopoly position, so it's a perfectly legal move. As long as they didn't become a monopoly in any specific creative field, it would be fine too.

In this hypothetical world where they bought all DAW software, wouldn’t they have a monopoly on DAW software?

I don’t see how this behavior would be particularly different from John Rockefeller buying up all the means of oil production.

Re: Apple unveils biggest update to Logic since the launch of Logic Pro X

#230

Post by fluffything »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #216
sjwright wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also awesome software only available for Windows, so I guess you can’t use that either. And there is awesome software only available for Linux, so that’s off the table too.

You missed my point because I wasn't very clear. Apple is actively trying to lock users into its ecosystem, and a few years ago I discovered how hard it was to switch. I have found that the time invested in learning how to use a tool is far more valuable than having a tool with a few more features. So with that in mind, I choose to invest my time and money learning how to use open source tools. I would much rather be…

That's reading too much into the lines. Apple wanted to guarantee that a central piece of software for Mac's marketing success was under their control. Maintaining a Windows version of that software adds no value to Apple's users, so they stopped developing it.

From there to "Apple bought Logic to lock people to Macs" there is a huge leap of faith. The majority of Mac uses do not use Logic, so if their goal was to lock their users to their ecosystem, this move makes no sense.

Also, there are good and often better alternatives to Logic, including Cubase, which work on all major platforms. So if you don't want to move to a Mac from Windows or Linux for the next Logic version, you have many good options.

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