Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#221

Post by phakding » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:15 AM UTC

megavolcano wrote: post #215

phakding wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, NY counted some that they shouldn't have. There's a vast majority of the country other than NYC that is affected by the virus and vast rest of the world too. You decided to nitpick one example and made it sound like a pattern.

Paraphrasing Dr. Birx: "There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem, some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. The intent is ... if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that." Paraphrasing mostly, but this is Dr. Birx admitting that the governme…

That's how that works. Take for example, HIV. Nobody dies of HIV, but because HIV causes immunodeficiency, you can die because of common cold or flu. That doesn't mean the person died because of common cold, they died because of HIV/AIDS.

Similarly if you have type 1 diabetes and you get infected with corona, you probably died with diabetic complications, but without corona you would have been totally fine.

Not sure how that doesn't change your point. In fact you are conflating two different things. On one hand you are arguing about overreporting and on the other hand don't even want to take into consideration common practices in disease statistics. Almost makes me think you are not arguing in good faith.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#222

Post by a_tractor » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

phakding wrote: post #139

Press2forEN wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choice between being alive and being jobless is a false dichotomy.

May be for healthy, but not for the people with certain underlying conditions like diabetes, high BP, obesity etc. Also even if you are not vulnerable to the disease, you could be spreading this to the others who are even without showing symptoms. Look at Sweden. They decided to let the people at risk stay home while others go out and about their business. Didn't work out too well for them.

>certain underlying conditions like diabetes, high BP, obesity etc

Most of those are almost all considered preventable diseases, and the result of poor dietary and lifestyle decisions.

Those responsible would like to never face this or admit it, but the "choice" for these people was lost a long time ago.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#223

Post by FpUser » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

nopriorarrests wrote: post #161

SerLava wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People who are financially secure can stay at home till 2021, nobody can force them to go to work, this is obvious. >It's a question of being able to make a personal decision between staying at home or going to work. Double speak. You mean rich people can decide to quarantine until 2021, and poor people can decide between work followed by exposure and possible death, or homelessness followed by exposure and possible…

Why is it double speak? Yes, I think that healthy 29 y.o. male with wife, kid and mortgage should have the ability to make a decision between going to work or losing his home. To make this decision for him looks unethical to me. And why exactly poor? It might be solidly middle class person. EDIT: I'm pushing forties, can sustain myself for 1.5 years without working maintaining the same lifestyle, and I would go to wo…

"I'm damn tired working from home."

Interesting. I work from home 20 years already and have no desire to sit in a cubicle or waste my time in downtown traffic. I have my own company and products but also develop products for other companies on order and my first ever requirement is that unless there is some super duper meeting I only work at my own premises.

Do not feel lonely either as I have enough friends with whom I can socialize to my heart's content whenever we feel like.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#224

Post by scollet » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:26 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #64

Angostura wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment is only deadly where incompetent government doesn't put policies in place to cushion businesses and individuals from the closedown. If your government isn't putting these policies in place, you should ask why

I'm not sure how many tens of trillions of dollars we'd need to cushion every business from closing but it'd be substantially more than we are now, and we'd likely never pay off that debt. The US doesn't have the borrowing power to prop up that many companies and people for 18 months. That much printing is deep in hyperinflation territory.

I suppose we can eat tanks then.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#225

Post by lonelappde » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:26 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #192

duchenne wrote: post #155

I guess it is easy to dismiss the message from ordinary people, since they do not express themselves as well as the professional speakers we are used to listen to. If instead of saying "I want a haircut.", they would say like Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." would they be taken more seriously? In the movie versio…

>Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." would they be taken more seriously? Just to point out that quote is a textbook example of historical revisionism. Benjamin Franklin wrote this to the Penn family who governed the state of the same name on behalf of the general assembly. The Penn family wanted to make a one time p…

Close, but missed it by a hair.

Franklin was telling the government that if they "give up essential Liberty to levee taxes for temporary safety (immediate funding)", they deserve none.

Anyway, Franklin wasn't God. He was a brilliant person and a clever rhetorician who new how to manipulate with words.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#226

Post by hsitz » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

alyx wrote: post #196

czardoz wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about this as if a "calculated risk" is limited to that individual, but it's not. Someone's "calculated risk" is literally death knell for others. In this case, the health of the society as a whole is at stake. Therefore, people need to collectively follow rules, and understand that minor inconveniences such as not being able to get a haircut will only affect them for a few weeks or months.

I don’t think you read his post. You are endangering others‘ lives each time you drive. And yet you’re not inline at the DMV surrendering your license, why? Seasonal sickness also isn’t new. My coworker gave me the flu and I gave it to my grandmother. Who’s at fault there?

Covid-19 is not like the seasonal flu.

Or, yeah, maybe it is just like the flu, except (1) covid-19 is more contagious, (2) Covid-19 is much more likely to kill you if you get infected, and (3) much of the population has immunity so seasonal flu, while almost nobody has immunity to Covid-19,so it would run roughshod over a population if people didn't social distance (unless testing/contact tracing infrastructure was in place to keep it in check).

Take a good read through this article and tell me why you want to continue comparing Covid-19 to the flu:

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/not-like-the-flu...

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#227

Post by FpUser » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #174

SamWhited wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This entire comment is a strawman. This is not the same as "arbitrary platform bias". This is not Facebook saying "we have a certain political view and we talked to the government and they agreed so no other views are acceptable". This is them stopping stupid people from killing a lot of other people. Also, your rights aren't affected. This is Facebook telling stupid people to shut up and stop spreading fud that coul…

People always think they are serving the greater good when they curtail someone’s rights. It’s not generally people sitting around maliciously wanting to oppress other people. It’s more often someone who thinks they are doing good, and that “right” is just in the way.

"People always think they are serving the greater good when they curtail someone’s rights."

always - really? Corporations lobbying government to curtail people's rights are driven by the desire for the greater good? Why am I in big doubt.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#228

Post by a_tractor » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #117

chrisco255 wrote: post #3

These are Americans exercising their constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly. Whether you agree with the protestors or not is irrelevant. Your rights are impacted, too, by this arbitrary platform bias. This cannot stand for long. We have to move away from centralized monopolies on the web.

> constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly The constitution applies to the government, not Facebook.

Constitutional rights are derived from natural law and therefore applies to anything that wishes to interact with human beings.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#229

Post by dmix » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:30 AM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #190

duchenne wrote: post #155

I guess it is easy to dismiss the message from ordinary people, since they do not express themselves as well as the professional speakers we are used to listen to. If instead of saying "I want a haircut.", they would say like Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." would they be taken more seriously? In the movie versio…

I have been a staunch progressive for my entire adulthood and now find myself strongly agreeing with the other side of the aisle. Strange times.

This is where the pyramid makes more sense than left/right. This is authoritarianism/centralization top of the pyramid, where people think they know what's best for other people and a top-down approach to "fixing stupid" is the best solution.

I personally think it's okay/normal for there to be idiots in society and trying to fix stupid by stopping them from protesting via opaque big tech companies moderation policies is a terrible way to go about it (or courts via government interference on public property, for that matter, but the constitution covers that already). I'd much rather have some stupid people protesting than have FB/outrage mobs driving what is okay to protest about.

That has little to do with being left/right leaning.

Weeding out astroturfing campaigns is also distinct from this, you can narrowly remove stuff that is atroturfed without being political about it. But just because some stuff is astroturfed shouldn't mean anything to do with it should then be shut down.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#230

Post by lonelappde » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:36 AM UTC

clairity wrote: post #75

downerending wrote: post #24

It's worth noting that there is a lot of discussion in serious circles (including here on HN) about the balance between too much and not enough with respect to quarantine, lockdown, etc., both in terms of where we are now and what we should do in the near future. I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. It…

the collection of arguments being made by the protesters (as reported) mostly seem farcical and incoherent, but we should very much support their right to protest and challenge the authoritarian-prone position that we must be locked down indefinitely to beat this pandemic. administrative directives need to convince a (super-)majority of the populace with evidence to gain trust and compliance. antagonistic pressure ne…

The US President, who governs by parroting the later bit of Fox News commentary, is instructing people to hoard and waste life-saving medication critically needed by lupus patients, based on fake research fake published by a fake researcher and cryptocurrency huckster.

He did this after cancelling pandemic prepardness programs and blatantly lying about every basic fact about the pandemic for months.

Tell me which administration is the one that needs to be held feet to the fire.

The protests are fund by the Koch brothers, profiteers who inherited their wealth from their father who built oil refineries for Stalin and Hitler.

A super-majority of the public support the lockdown and fear ending it too soon. Everyone living in population centers is seeing friends or family members die, and less dense areas are likely to follow.