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New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

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Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#221

Post by [deleted] »

circlefavshape wrote: post #136
munificent wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

I am absolutely sick to death of outrage culture, and I thoroughly agree - in fact I think the outrage probably encourages the bravado of people who are engaging in risky behaviour atm

[deleted]

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#222

Post by Leigh3oi »

munificent wrote: post #23
ilamont wrote: post #6

There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

Unfortunately, a lot of people haven't learned the lesson they were supposed to learn from "The boy who cried 'wolf'".

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#223

Post by selimthegrim »

sodafountan wrote: post #147
carlosdp wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think authoritarian tactics like that, while effective, would fly in the US. I for one would not be ok with that. Once the government takes that authority once, who knows what they end up doing with it when they see they can get away with it.

I agree, as alarming as it sounds I think we'd need something much higher than a 2% fatality rate to justify completely giving up our civil liberties. If anything it should be the elderly and vulnerable that are forced to isolate while the rest of society slows down for awhile, but even that I think is too egregious at this point.

Imperial College doesn’t think that’s going to do enough good

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#224

Post by ransom1538 »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #129

There is no doubt Cuomo should be the national point person for the response to the crisis based on his performance so far. He is independently working with regional manufacturing to retool to make critical medical PPE and ventilators, and has organized a regional coalition including CT, NJ, and PA. I have not agreed with him all the time, but his crisis management has been exemplary and he will have saved many lives…

Sorry what? His state has the highest infection rate and he just NOW did a 100% workforce reduction. He hasn't even issued "a shelter in place" order. BARS WERE OPEN MONDAY. Thousands of deaths will be on his hands. I think he should be criminally prosecuted.

NY needs to be locked down NOW.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#225

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

virmundi wrote: post #190
r00fus wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "death fast", it's: 1) way more deaths and a complete congestion of medical services vs. 2) less deaths, manageable medical service and a period of painful stagnation for the economy. If you get critically sick or injured (not COVID19 related) and hospitals are overflowing, you will suffer when no one can see you because of COVID19 cases.

Why not move to a system where those most likely to live with minimal resource consumption move up? You’d probably need a multiplier for those that are useful to society but need more resources

That sounds an awful lot like a romanticized perfect democracy, which cannot exist outside of fiction, or a social credit system. There's an ongoing study on the effectiveness of a social credit system. It's happening in China. Go test it out and report back.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#226

Post by mokus »

carlosdp wrote: post #144
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #95

At this point wouldn't it be better to just implement a Chinese-style martial law lock-down? The damage to the economy is already here. Might as well shut things down for 3-4 weeks and slowly open up sections of a city. That seems better to me then dragging this thing out for 3 months or longer. I feel like these "stages" of lock-down are doing nothing but delaying the inevitable which will cause more damage in the l…

I don't think authoritarian tactics like that, while effective, would fly in the US. I for one would not be ok with that. Once the government takes that authority once, who knows what they end up doing with it when they see they can get away with it.

Something like that should come with a massive political cost - maybe after the crisis, all sitting politicians become ineligible for re-election on the basis that they shouldn’t have let it come to that point in the first place.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#227

Post by syshum »

wbl wrote: post #93
syshum wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This virus will be with everyone for 18+ months, the point of the lockdown is allow the Health system to catch up If you lock down early you irreparably harm the local economy and simply delay a spike instead of "flattening the curve" unless you are willing to except a year long lock down, massive economic depression and the colapse of the US Dollar

We could contact trace and quarantine like SK is now.

We should be doing that, but that is not what we are doing

We quarantine in indiscriminately with no tracing, very little testing

This has all the economic harm with no benefits that a proper quarantine would have

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#228

Post by IAmEveryone »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #183
CydeWeys wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "cancel culture" have to do with containment measures taken in response to a global pandemic?

I think the applicable concept concept is that cancle culture is ineffective at changing minds and a more compassionate approach is more appropriate in both the short and long run. Hate and shame feeds reactionary behavior and is counter productive. If you disagree with someone, empathize with them as a human being and explain how their behavior is hurting others

Hate and shame are evolutionary mechanisms to get people to follow group norms. As long as they hurt (something you seem to accept), people will try to avoid them.

It’s also worth noting that these are mild measures compared to the other stick societies like to use, criminal law. If people felt confident that rapists were prosecuted not just in cases where their victims number in the dozens (Weinstein, Crosby), they wouldn’t feel the need to use social and economic pressure.

It's also nothing new: "In Ancient Greece the Athenians had a procedure known as "ostracism" in which all citizens could write a person's name on a shard of broken pottery (called ostraka) and place it in a large container in a public place. If an individual's name was written a sufficient number of times, he was "ostracized"—banished from the city for ten years. This was normally practiced against individuals who had behaved in some way that offended the community."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcast_(person)

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#229

Post by mokus »

sodafountan wrote: post #147
carlosdp wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think authoritarian tactics like that, while effective, would fly in the US. I for one would not be ok with that. Once the government takes that authority once, who knows what they end up doing with it when they see they can get away with it.

I agree, as alarming as it sounds I think we'd need something much higher than a 2% fatality rate to justify completely giving up our civil liberties. If anything it should be the elderly and vulnerable that are forced to isolate while the rest of society slows down for awhile, but even that I think is too egregious at this point.

Lincoln used marshal law during the civil war and even that was deemed unconstitutional in some areas. As long as there are functioning civil courts, marshal law is not considered justified, as I understand it.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#230

Post by gokhan »

nostromo wrote: post #185
gokhan wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be deadly wrong. About half of those infected in New York City are under 50 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/nyregion/coronavirus-new-... ...preliminary figures released on Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that adults ages 20 to 44 represent nearly one-third of U.S. coronavirus patients whose ages are known. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-millen...

Anyone can get infected of course. Does that surprise you? The study was regarding fatalities. In any case, it's not me who you're calling "deadly" wrong, it's the Italian Ministry of Health.

The second link summarizes how unhealthy are millenials. What will happen when ICU capacity is not enough? There was another study suggesting that being exposed to the virus fast vs slow makes the difference, can't find it now. Crowded hospitals with millenials will surely make a difference for all.
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