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Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

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Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#221

Post by songzme »

barry-cotter wrote: post #220
songzme wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Non-profits optimize for a pleasant work environment for faculty Some do, some don't. Some Non-profits optimize for maximize impact to their vision. > for profits for maximum numbers students. Some do, some don't. Some for-profits optimize a small number of wealthy clients.

Please tell me of these non-profit schools that maximise for impact to their vision, or for-profit schools that optimise for small numbers of wealthy clients.

Sorry, in all honestly I don't know enough back my previous claims, I'm speaking from my personal perspective (which may be biased).

Some of the regular students that come into the library lives off non-profit assistance and one is homeless. They speak highly of local nonprofits providing them food / shelter. I've volunteered at a few shelters that were impactful (don't know them by name unfortunately, I'm too privileged). Staff there definitely didn't have the comforts I have at my current work place.

I spent a chunk of my childhood growing up in Beverly Hills around some peers whose parents run profitable businesses. They have always valued few wealthy clients over many average clients.

Again, take my experience with a grain of salt, I'm not interested enough to prove this point.

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#222

Post by yaymo »

glenngillen wrote: post #208
chrisseaton wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not a fan of bootcamps because I think a lot of them are more focused on making money than actually helping people This idea doesn't pass a common sense test to me - I'm sure bootcamps can be profitable, but the people running them are used to building things that scale. Bootcamps definitely don't scale. If these tech people were looking to get-rich-quick they surely wouldn't be running a school, of all things,…

I did some back-of-the-envelope numbers on the one I came into contact with previously (also keep in mind this was 6 years ago now too!): 20-30x students per cohort who paid ~$20K upfront for a 12 week program. 20% signing fee (based on 1st year comp) from employer on placement. We definitely were not paying top of market as some of these students ended up at Uber and Facebook. That said the all in 1st year cost betw…

if you think 28 out of 30 enrollee's in every cohort getting 200k as their first gig is a repeatable business, you are delusional.

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#223

Post by tomhoward »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #175
mattmcknight wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How do you propose that people learn these skills- or learn if they are capable of achieving these skills?" Is that too difficult to answer for you?

There might not be a good answer, but that doesn't make the existing attempts good. That argument is the same logic I could use to say "Why did you criticize their plan of hitting people in the head as treatment for stage IV cancer if you haven't got a better proposal?"

Can you explain in what sense people voluntarily signing up for an educational course that they only have to pay for if they make a solid living within 5 years is the equivalent of hitting terminal cancer patients in the head?

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#224

Post by superduperuser »

raiyu wrote: post #91
hintymad wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, what's wrong with a community college? It's cheap. It's flexible. Its admission rate is practically 100%. Its courses are not worse than a code camp's. My relative went to a CC, and I reviewed his course work. CCs does not spend much time teaching all the fundamentals, but they do teach some. In their data structure course, they don't teach student why two pivots are not better than a single pivot in qu…

I think community colleges are great, and if you can get one on one instruction anywhere it is fantastic. The challenge is that bootcamps are really designed for people who are changing careers. Which means they have already gone through college or actively working. So it becomes an issue because they are reliant on income to survive and they aren't living with their parents. Basically it's unplanned and so much hard…

"" Computer Science" is the equivalent of math 100 years ago..."

Would mind expanding on that?

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#225

Post by James_Henry »

raiyu wrote: post #73

I've had a fair amount of experience with coding boot camps having have helped several friends and coworkers apply, get accepted, attend, and complete bootcamps across various cities and institutions. The idea of bootcamps is fantastic, they allow people that may have not been exposed to computer science to get up to speed on technology and transition careers. However, there are several problems. First and foremost,…

Just so you know, secondary education means high school. Past that is post-secondary school.

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#226

Post by turk73 »

glenngillen wrote: post #208
chrisseaton wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not a fan of bootcamps because I think a lot of them are more focused on making money than actually helping people This idea doesn't pass a common sense test to me - I'm sure bootcamps can be profitable, but the people running them are used to building things that scale. Bootcamps definitely don't scale. If these tech people were looking to get-rich-quick they surely wouldn't be running a school, of all things,…

I did some back-of-the-envelope numbers on the one I came into contact with previously (also keep in mind this was 6 years ago now too!): 20-30x students per cohort who paid ~$20K upfront for a 12 week program. 20% signing fee (based on 1st year comp) from employer on placement. We definitely were not paying top of market as some of these students ended up at Uber and Facebook. That said the all in 1st year cost betw…

Why were all the instructors volunteers?

If your for-profit bootcamp company asked me to teach but not pay me I'd tell you to go fuck yourselves.

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#227

Post by 737min »

akanet wrote: post #170
intherdfield wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems really disingenuous. Can't you update the article with this important detail?

It's not disingenuous; I think an earlier draft had it. This came down from 4000 words. I'll try to ask my editor to add this as a correction but things are pretty hectic. It's a fairly minor omission in my opinion, but I understand disagreeing.

Agree it’s a minor point, can’t expect OP to fit every contractual detail in a short article.

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#228

Post by SuoDuanDao »

ucha wrote: post #2

I'm wondering why it is that two hit pieces came out at the same time [1]? Is it just a coincidence? https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/11/21131848/lambda-school-co...

Perhaps a number of journalists who were targeted by the 'learn to code' meme a few months ago actually made a go of it and are beginning to graduate around now.

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#229

Post by barry-cotter »

songzme wrote: post #221
barry-cotter wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me of these non-profit schools that maximise for impact to their vision, or for-profit schools that optimise for small numbers of wealthy clients.

Sorry, in all honestly I don't know enough back my previous claims, I'm speaking from my personal perspective (which may be biased). Some of the regular students that come into the library lives off non-profit assistance and one is homeless. They speak highly of local nonprofits providing them food / shelter. I've volunteered at a few shelters that were impactful (don't know them by name unfortunately, I'm too privil…

I wasn’t talking about generic for profits and non profits. I was talking about those which provide education. The incentives are very different.

Good on you for responding and explaining your reasoning.

Re: Lambda School’s Misleading Promises

#230

Post by mattmcknight »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #175
mattmcknight wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How do you propose that people learn these skills- or learn if they are capable of achieving these skills?" Is that too difficult to answer for you?

There might not be a good answer, but that doesn't make the existing attempts good. That argument is the same logic I could use to say "Why did you criticize their plan of hitting people in the head as treatment for stage IV cancer if you haven't got a better proposal?"

It's more like, these guys are offering a plan where you get treatment for stage IV cancer and you only have to pay if it works. The other options require you or someone else to pay huge amounts up front, regardless of outcome, and are no better at getting results.
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