Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction • Hacker News Board

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#221

Post by malcolmwhat » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

throwawaymath wrote: post #63

xtracto wrote: post #8

This reminds me of an anecdote a friend told me: This friend dedicates his time in going to very rural areas/towns here in Mexico to implement government programs. At some point in the past he got to a town were the cantina had just gotten the only TV in town... apparently people in the town were generally happy, and they had everything they needed... so in their view they were not poor. But once they started watchin…

That raises profound and fascinating philosophical questions about the nature of knowledge and happiness. I wonder how many of those people would choose to forego the knowledge of what they don't have if it meant they would be happy again. On the other hand, is that even a meaningful question to ask, given it's not possible? Which of course leads to the ethical question: is it right for people to live in ignorance if…

You’ve fallen into the fallacy of equating availability of advertisement to availability of knowledge. Knowledge is supposed to be a direct result of some observation of reality, advertising is usually a created and modified reality designed by someone (who is using their knowledge of the psychology behind it funnily enough) which displays the product or service as a requirement for improvement of the person being advertised too’s life. The goal of advertising is to sell, the result of knowledge is to understand. Two very different things.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#222

Post by wrkronmiller » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #148

throwawaymath wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That raises profound and fascinating philosophical questions about the nature of knowledge and happiness. I wonder how many of those people would choose to forego the knowledge of what they don't have if it meant they would be happy again. On the other hand, is that even a meaningful question to ask, given it's not possible? Which of course leads to the ethical question: is it right for people to live in ignorance if…

I don't I know the answer is that difficult. 1) Prime Directive: don't introduce knowledge that will make someone's life harder or more complicated if you don't have to. 2) If they have the means to get that knowledge, you're now obligated to fill in the disparity between your quality of life, such that they can be at least as happy as you are.

This way of thinking is founded upon the notion that blissful ignorance is something societies should strive towards.

Without unfulfilled desires, there is no room for self-actualization. See: Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#223

Post by kaibee » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:39 PM UTC

nickelcitymario wrote: post #213

kaibee wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two things about recessions. First, they end. Second, it does not follow that banning/severely regulating advertising to consumers would trigger another recession.

Well, it seems to me you're trying to have it both ways. Does advertising cause people to spend more than they would otherwise, or not? If it does, then eliminating advertising would reduce spending which is what causes a recession. If it doesn't, then what's all the fuss about? Recessions in North America (can't speak for any other context unfortunately) have ended due to concerted efforts to get people to spend mor…

> Does advertising cause people to spend more than they would otherwise, or not?

Yes, it does, though not as much as they wish they could spend. Hence the unhappiness. However, it also distorts the allocation of that spending.

> If it does, then eliminating advertising would reduce spending which is what causes a recession.

People would not stop buying stuff without advertising. They would be more likely to spend the money more on vacations/experiences. Trusted reviews would become a much larger industry. This is different from ads however, as it would be paid for by the consumer. I suppose companies could also pay the reviewer to include their product when doing a round-up of the various options, assuming that all of the competitors paid the same amount, there's no reason for the reviewer to be biased.

> Looking around the world, it seems to me that many recessions didn't, in fact, end. Instead, their economies imploded entirely.

How many of them were caused by banning/regulating direct-to-consumer advertising?

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#224

Post by bcmo » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

pascalxus wrote: post #191

slumdev wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These stories are too common. I would guess that the median* wage on HN is probably around 5x what your brother-in-law makes. And I would also guess that many of us are perfectly content with old phones, old cars, and generally reduced consumption. Hell, I buy clothes at thrift/resale shops when I find something nice that fits. What are people of means (relatively) seeing? Is it because we have more leisure time and…

These stories are so common, when I read it, I was thinking it was a precise description of my own brother. My brother who earns 6 times less than I purchases a 1000$ Samsung phone whereas I don't buy any phone at all and just use the handme-down from my wife, for 0$. It's a 5 year old iphone6 but still works Great. His other expenses are much lower though: for example, he has subsidized housing which means he pays a…

No one thinks advertising works on them.

That's why it works on them.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#225

Post by wrkronmiller » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

slumdev wrote: post #112

tombert wrote: post #39

I was the first person in my family to do the "cord cutting" thing, where I only had an Amazon Prime and Netflix account, and a bunch of DVDs and Blu-Rays (around 2012). People asked me why, and I said that I think it's dumb to pay money for advertisements, and that I think ads are bad for you. My brother-in-law is overall a smart guy, but he works at Taco Bell full-time, making minimum wage in NYC (~$15/hour). He de…

These stories are too common. I would guess that the median* wage on HN is probably around 5x what your brother-in-law makes. And I would also guess that many of us are perfectly content with old phones, old cars, and generally reduced consumption. Hell, I buy clothes at thrift/resale shops when I find something nice that fits. What are people of means (relatively) seeing? Is it because we have more leisure time and…

Another possibility is that people on HN are wealthier, in part, because they are better than average at delaying gratification.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#226

Post by pradn » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #98

taurath wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s to get rid of the shame he feels about having an older inferior phone, frequently from peers who’ve been exposed to advertising

I personally would feel quite ashamed to have the latest IPhone, I'd feel that I'd fallen prey to apple's marketing. I live pretty well with a 5 year old SE. For the same reason I refuse to wear visibly branded clothes and am not ashamed to buy some used items. Living frugally by choice gets you back some freedoms.

I understand that. Being around a certain crowd makes you want certain things. An architect friend said she wouldn't want to be seen using an Android when a client visits her office. I'm glad my work and friends don't pressure me as much with things like that. If anything, I'd be embarrassed to be walking around with a $1100 phone, an openly extravagant purchase.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#227

Post by NPMaxwell » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

throwawaymath wrote: post #63

xtracto wrote: post #8

This reminds me of an anecdote a friend told me: This friend dedicates his time in going to very rural areas/towns here in Mexico to implement government programs. At some point in the past he got to a town were the cantina had just gotten the only TV in town... apparently people in the town were generally happy, and they had everything they needed... so in their view they were not poor. But once they started watchin…

That raises profound and fascinating philosophical questions about the nature of knowledge and happiness. I wonder how many of those people would choose to forego the knowledge of what they don't have if it meant they would be happy again. On the other hand, is that even a meaningful question to ask, given it's not possible? Which of course leads to the ethical question: is it right for people to live in ignorance if…

I recommend remaining in ignorance of how good it feels to take heroin. You don't want to know

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#228

Post by wpietri » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

nickelcitymario wrote: post #35

wpietri wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This is classic POSIWID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha... People mainly buy things to solve problems, to end negative feelings. So if you want people to buy things, the obvious solution is to create negative feelings that can be ended by spending money on your product. The most obvious example is of course addictive products. Just when we were finally weaning society of nicotin…

Public relations != advertising. Ed Bernays != spokesperson for all PR professionals. There are shady people in every industry.

All three things are technically true. All miss my point.

Bernays did a lot of what would be called advertising work today. He isn't a spokesperson, what with being dead and all, but his work was foundational. What mainly distinguishes him from today's practitioners is that he was pretty straightforward about what what he was doing, while these days people apply his principles while talking about PR and advertising. And yes, there are shady people everywhere, but some industries are shadier than others.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#229

Post by tvanantwerp » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:50 PM UTC

logjammin wrote: post #5

I spent a lot of time in Vermont many years ago. I'd been there a little while, blissfully unaware, before someone told me "yeah, they banned billboards here in the sixties - you didn't notice?" I hadn't consciously noticed, no, but I'd spent my time there until that comment driving around stunned at how beautiful the place was. Now I knew the reason for that (well, partial reason - billboards or not, it's a pretty p…

I've never understood how billboards are acceptable. A giant sign that screams "Look at me, not the road!" seems like a bad idea.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#230

Post by pascalxus » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

dibujaron wrote: post #220

pascalxus wrote: post #212

I have a hard time relating to these findings. Advertisement almost never works on me. And, the few times it does work on me, I'm actually quite glad and appreciative because I only buy products I really want or really need. If I look at all my credit card, amazon and ebay purchases for the last several years, which i do often, i see it's just the things I need/want: gas, maintenance, groceries a few times going out…

"Advertising doesn't work on me" is a lie that nearly everyone tells themselves. Advertisers love this. Ads rarely makes anyone rush out to go buy x out of the blue, but if someone is choosing between x product and y product, they're much more likely to pick x if has been advertised to them before. The substance of the ad is almost irrelevant; just because they've heard the name of x repeatedly before, they're much m…

Your might be right about most people. (advertisers love to tell this to their CEO but they've been wrong about this before - just look at the 20 million dollar case study with Ebay and their wasted ad spend on google ads).

But, it really doesn't work on me 99.9% of the time. I know because I review all my spending habits and I can clearly see 1/2 of the products I buy don't even advertise. Ever seen an ad for cucumbers or tomatoes or other real food? or rotten robbies gas station? i have no idea what label is on my clothes. etc.

And even on the rare occasions when it does work, the vast majority of the ads still are completely wasted. How many times have I seen an ad for metromile, when I'm already a happy customer of theirs. their targetting must be awful.

Sometimes I use the product because I'm forced to: like when sharebuilder got bought out by etrade. how many times will I see the completely useless etrade ads over my lifetime? i mean I'm already their customer (by default), so all their ad dollars are completely wasted.