Medications that change who we are • Hacker News Board

Re: Medications that change who we are

#221

Post by Balgair » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

bluesroo wrote: post #176

_8ljf wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If you lose half your brain, you’re probably dead, and if not, you’ll be drastically impaired the rest of your life.” Depends. Patients who undergo hemispherectomy at a very young age can recover remarkably well; a testament to the incredible plasticity of the developing brain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy In adult brains, yeah, it’s a very different story. See also: stroke. Honestly, you’re both ri…

This is probably an example of an "exception that proves the rule".

There are a fair few exceptions though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Molaison#See_also

Mind, these are the 'famous' people.

My google-fu isn't super great here, so I've not sources, but I know of a few cases of French postmen that 'suffered' from hydranencephaly, were married, with many children, and otherwise 'normal'. It's not super uncommon that people with otherwise good balance but who cannot ride a bike also 'suffer' from a lack of a cerebellum.

The wiki article on hydranencephaly is SUPER wild. Take a look at that picture of that baby! Though it is typically lethal, there are cases where those affected survive into adulthood

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydranencephaly

Re: Medications that change who we are

#222

Post by Balgair » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

xiphias2 wrote: post #68

aphextron wrote: post #32

>"It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains." I feel like perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals - your brain is your body. It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. People think they can take an a…

Even if the brain is not apart from the rest of the body, there is a special thing between the two: the blood-brain barrier, which is actually quite hard to cross with medications, and poses a real challange in curing brain diseases.

To be fair, there are a lot of blood-XYZ barriers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood%E2%80%93brain_barrier#...

Re: Medications that change who we are

#223

Post by Balgair » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

dr_dshiv wrote: post #147

kerkeslager wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

I like reading ignorant things like this because it helps show why we really need more classical education in society. If you'd actually read some Plato, as opposed to summaries, I'd be shocked if you could keep the same belief. It's just so damn good for thinking with. But prior to Plato, the Pythagorean Philolaus wrote that sensation/experience comes from the interaction between the soul (greek: psyche) and the bod…

> I like reading ignorant things like this

From the HN guidelines:

"Be kind. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine."

Re: Medications that change who we are

#224

Post by allovernow » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:29 PM UTC

dpark wrote: post #203

allovernow wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we know so little, is it really ethical for a psychiatrist to prescribe these drugs to make people slightly more like the opposite gender, rather than teaching them to accept who they are and deal with the disorder like any other incurable condition?

What “other incurable conditions” do doctors not even attempt to treat and simply tell patients to “accept who they are and deal with it”?

You realize that the alternative is telling people to spend the rest of their lives in an irreversible, elaborate fantasy LARP? One which potentially comes with its own burdens and eventually leads to permanent sterilization?

I'm not saying don't treat it. I'm saying hormones and plastic surgery do not make a woman, and more sane treatment would acknowledge this fact and teach coping skills much in the same way we are forced to treat conditions like autism, drug resistant depression, and any other chronic disorder with no cure.

A treatment which is based entirely on indulging delusion is no treatment at all, and the bottom line is that you don't get to decide how your gender is perceived. The vast majority of men have no interest in dating or marrying transgender women and it's a disservice to those with gender dismorphia to pretend like they do. What happened to past messages of learning to accept who you are and be comfortable in your own skin? Why stop here? Why not prescribe plastic surgery to teenage girls who don't feel that they're pretty enough for their gender role?

Re: Medications that change who we are

#225

Post by cc81 » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:39 PM UTC

1996 wrote: post #211

cc81 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be but I used to look at studies about roid rage and found back then that there was not that much support for increased aggression, at least not when using testosterone and in moderate dosages for bodybuilding (which are very large dosages compared to replacement therapy). On the other hand I'm pretty sure when we are talking really strong AAS such trendbolone there is so much anecdotal evidence that people…

Are you blaming Trump on the trans? That's a funny new perspective! But joke aside, why would hormones only work in one way? And why couldn't you say the same about, say acetaminophen? Without a RCT your guess is as good as mine!

Sorry, not following. I don't have any deep knowledge about the subject more than I historically been interested in fitness and bodybuilding and with that comes some knowledge about hormones.

Not saying "roid rage" is not impossible but the studies I saw was that the idea mainly came from people in criminal circles who often used a multitude of drugs who wanted to be bigger and more intimidating and then drank some alcohol, popped some benzo or did pcp and started fights. Thus "roid rage" became a thing.

But when they looked at people who were just in the fitness industry with normal jobs and families that used testosterone they did not find the connection. This was a time ago and maybe there are newer studies. However there are much stronger anabolic steroids than testosterone and those I suspect can cause real roid rage; some people seem to get odd rages on for example trenbolone.

Hormones do affect how you feel though and like I said I do only have experience with Prednisone for inflammatory bowel disease flares and while I get noticeable more irritated (I can control it, so I know that I'm pissed that my colleague is humming because of the medicine and I can just ignore it) but I've read in forums about the disease that one decided to stop driving when he was on high dose Prednisone just because he got such insane road rage and was afraid that he would do something stupid. That is rarely something doctors tell you.

About your other questions I don't know I'm afraid. I have very little knowledge about the subject more than these specifics.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#226

Post by allovernow » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

JimboOmega wrote: post #220

allovernow wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we know so little, is it really ethical for a psychiatrist to prescribe these drugs to make people slightly more like the opposite gender, rather than teaching them to accept who they are and deal with the disorder like any other incurable condition?

I didn't mean to make this about transgender medicine. The evidence is pretty strong that hormone treatment improves wellbeing for transgender patients[1], and of course, they can always stop it if it doesn't. The fact that very few do is a good indicator of satisfaction overall. There is a very strong bias towards safety in the practice of transgender medicine. I can also personally attest that transgender medicine…

And where are the studies regarding post transition surgery regret?

I would caution you to be very careful in forming your opinion from modern research in the field. The institution has undeniably accumulated a very strong bias with the emergent result that published results (and research direction) tends to be very one sided.

But looking in from the outside, I absolutely cannot take seriously an establishment which unironically recommends permanent genital mutilation which results in a potential lifetime of pain from daily dilation of an artificial orifice which is little more than a glorified wound, which is neither self cleaning nor self lubricating. What is even the point? Surely believing that this is in any way equivalent to a vagina is a medically encouraged delusion, no?

I do not mean to be insensitive to your plight. And I cannot deny that you personally have, at least in the short term, benefited from your treatment, and that's wonderful. But we have reached a point now where young adults are being lead by doctors they trust to make irreversible changes which may permanently worsen their quality of life, in a way that seemingly contradicts the standard approach to any other brain disorder (and, yes, it fits that definition, regardless of whether the fad of the day is to pretend it doesn't). I'd have been less explicit in my comments if I didn't feel that dancing around this subject with kids gloves is the reason that we're slipping into this mess.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#227

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:52 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Medications that change who we are

#228

Post by doitLP » Sun, Jan 12, 2020, 12:04 AM UTC

sizzle wrote: post #218

doitLP wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but the list of drugs that cross that barrier is long. Everything from antibiotics to statins. And even if they didn’t, the body is a tightly interconnected system. Taking an antidepressant to “selectively affect serotonin” in the brain? Whoops, turns out your gut has at least as many serotonin receptors as the brain. Taking a statin to reduce cholesterol (which it does very well but with an NNT > 200 for heart…

Very interesting claims, please share the citations.

1) NNT meta analysis (one of a very large body of literature): https://www.thennt.com/nnt/statins-persons-low-risk-cardiova...

2) Best I could find in 2 minutes. Will look for the studies. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-second-brain/

Re: Medications that change who we are

#229

Post by polishdude20 » Sun, Jan 12, 2020, 12:06 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #198

dpark wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. Except it is. The brain is a part of your body and the two are tightly integrated. Yet the brain is also not simply another organ. If you lose half of your liver, your personality might change due to the trauma, but you will still be you. If you lose a kidney, you’ll live on as if littl…

> If you lose half of your liver, your personality might change due to the trauma, but you will still be you. If your thyroid is damaged, it effects who you are through depression, lethargy, anxiety and significant behavioral changes. If your adrenal glands are overactive, it effects who you are through chronic stress, psychological conditioning and panic. Disorders of the gut effect who you are similarly, as does re…

Also these psychological changes happen because these hormones ultimately go on to affect the brain

Re: Medications that change who we are

#230

Post by lilyball » Sun, Jan 12, 2020, 12:19 AM UTC

allovernow wrote: post #226

JimboOmega wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean to make this about transgender medicine. The evidence is pretty strong that hormone treatment improves wellbeing for transgender patients[1], and of course, they can always stop it if it doesn't. The fact that very few do is a good indicator of satisfaction overall. There is a very strong bias towards safety in the practice of transgender medicine. I can also personally attest that transgender medicine…

And where are the studies regarding post transition surgery regret? I would caution you to be very careful in forming your opinion from modern research in the field. The institution has undeniably accumulated a very strong bias with the emergent result that published results (and research direction) tends to be very one sided. But looking in from the outside, I absolutely cannot take seriously an establishment which…

I don't have statistics on-hand, but as I understand it, bottom surgery (SRS, GRS, whatever you want to call it) has one of the absolute highest patient satisfaction rates of any major surgery (including lifesaving surgeries).

> permanent genital mutilation which results in a potential lifetime of pain from daily dilation of an artificial orifice which is little more than a glorified wound

Pretty much every single word of what you just wrote is not only wrong, but highly offensive. Please don't speak of things you don't understand.