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People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

bennettnotes.com

221–230 of 375 posts

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#221
post #73

I have the opposite problem. I have zero drive for status & prestige, but rather follow my passions no matter how unfashionable they are. And it hurts my career. I don't have twitter followers who fall over themselves to offer me a job the very second I enter the job market. I can't shame a company or other big entity for behaving badly. I have very little leverage for many important career-improving opportunities be…

I hate the idea that developers should have blogs. I see the advantage in using it to market yourself, but I write code for a living not blogs. There isn't that much information that I feel the need to share with the world, and for the things I do (that would be career related), I don't usually have the time and motivation to write them up properly.

> I hate the idea that developers should have blogs.

I hate the reality that developers can't easily develop a portfolio of work because generally their work is owned lock, stock, and barrel by the companies they work for, and can't be legally shared outside of those places.

So we have github, but even that is suspect and many potential employers don't look at it, unless you are some well known contributor or founder to one or more open-source projects. Even then it can be a crap shoot; I've read on more than one occasion somewhat famous developers of tools being turned down for positions at companies that use the very tools they developed. It is somewhat maddenning.

You can just about forget it if your repositories are for your own personal projects, but that's better than nothing - and that's also where a blog has some influence. Basically, as a place to show something of your coding ability and knowledge, and the value you can bring as a new hire.

But honestly, that can get tiring; sometimes when I go home from work, I'll do something interesting - but many times, I just want to relax and not think about coding or other projects too much. I've found myself becoming more this way as I've grown older (currently approaching 50).

I've been an SWE for over 25 years now, but every time I find myself looking for a new position, it feels as though my previous experience counts for nothing. I can't show any future employer what I worked on in the past (and in many cases, that work is long gone along with the previous employer), they rarely want to look at my github or (back when it existed - I really need to restart it - sigh) my personal blogging site. It feels like every such interview and encounter I am starting fresh.

It sickens me. I don't know of any other kind of career where this kind of thing is the norm, except software development and engineering. If you aren't extremely famous and known, or you don't have a deep and wide network, or whatever - you can't just drop your resume, have a decent conversation about your past work and skills, and be given a chance. Instead, you are more often than not forced to jump thru a variety of ill-conceived hoops (many of them on fire, too!), which in the end might get you the position, or more often than not, you are rejected without any explanation or reasoning that might help you to understand what you need to work on in order to be more successful the next time around.

It's fairly absurd when you are on the younger end of the scale; now imagine you are old enough in some cases to be the parent of the person interviewing you, and still being questioned in such a manner, after likely being employed in the past longer than they've been alive.

It's almost Kafkaesque.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#222
post #168

From David Brooks: "I’ve been thinking about the difference between the résumé virtues and the eulogy virtues. The résumé virtues are the ones you list on your résumé, the skills that you bring to the job market and that contribute to external success. The eulogy virtues are deeper. They’re the virtues that get talked about at your funeral, the ones that exist at the core of your being — whether you are kind, brave,…

I prefer to focus on the virtues that bring happiness and joy to my life while I'm alive. Money is one of those things. I don't care about what people will say at my funeral because I won't be there. If being brave and honest makes you happy and brings joy to your life then go for it. If the challenges of becoming a billionaire is what makes you feel alive, then go for it.

It's pretty hard to become happy by focusing on what you don't have.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#223
It's rare to see such honest self-reflection on a sensitive topic like this.

The need for recognition in some way or another is hardwired into us, and I don't believe it's intrinsically bad - we are a communal animal and we want to provide value for our community, our brains want success and prestige as a way to motivate us to do that - like feeling hungry motivates us to nourish ourselves. It's a basic need to feel useful, and prestige is the metric our primitive brains use to measure that usefulness, hence office drones find happiness as little league coaches.

Like any force, it can be both good or bad, and it turns bad when your ONLY concern is success and prestige, leading you to optimize external appearances and get some of that sweet sweet second hand prestige. But when combined with something you enjoy doing, and that can provide real value to the world, this desire can be truly world changing, and I think it's a vast oversimplification (being HN I can say it's over-fitting to a one-dimensional metric) to say that the Jobs, Musks, Gates and other folks weren't motivated to some degree by it.

Side note: I remember flying out of LA a few years back and seeing FIVE gaunt bald men dressed in black turtle necks and blue jeans. Either there was a call for a Steve Jobs biopic and nobody took off their costumes, or LA is the the poster child for over-optimizing external appearances.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#224
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She would say, “Dave, you only got one award this year. Remember when you won seven last year?” I've had stuff like this from parents. Nothing is ever good enough, I have a friend who is massively more successful than me that I've been friends with since we were children. Went to same nursery, school and university. When I told my parents I got a bonus one year, instead of great, well done. I got asked how much, fo…

I feel you. My parent are same way. The constant comparison and criticism has driven me anxious and depressed. I am from Pakistan, and this is pretty common for our community. The worst part is that they went above and beyond for our education. So now I constantly hear about how they sacrificed their pleasure for us and how we are so ungrateful. They complain that I cannot take a little bit of constructive criticism.…

I drew the line with my dad when he looked down my girlfriend’s shirt and said he could see why I liked her and when he made anti-Semitic remarks about the faculty at my brother’s graduation. (I’m not Pakistani by birth but my mother was and my dad’s grandfather migrated). It started with that sort of behavior you describe as well as misogyny. If you don’t nip it in the bud now there’s no telling where it will end up. This isn’t the pind in Punjab (where his grandfather was from) where you can scratch your balls in public for eternity and no one will say anything.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Purchasing real estate (or even a Tesla, etc) is out of reach for people like me, and likely will be for 10+ years from now. Say someone makes 150% or more of what I make (ergo are valued 150% superior in a fair labor market) and they can save far more and build a their net worth significantly faster even with a more luxurious lifestyle.

Lol that's not how getting rich actually works. People get quickly used to new income, a bit better phones, clothing, cars, vacations etc. Plus 50% increase doesn't actually translate to 50% net income, taxes % go up in most western world pretty steeply, so the jump is not that big. This isn't valid for 100% of the folks obviously, but say 90% fall into this trap one way or the other. It is paradoxically easiest for…

I think there's another thing going on.

Let's say that I'm getting by, but only just. There's things I'd like to do - take a vacation, or replace the carpet, or trade up to a better car - but I don't bother thinking much about them, because there's no point. Those things I can't do bother me a bit, but I don't dwell on them very much.

Now my circumstances improve. Now I can take that vacation, or replace the carpet, or trade up to a better car. But note that I said "or", not "and". I can do one of the things I want, but only one. Now each of those things is realistically possible, and I can seriously consider doing it. But in the end, I can only do one of them.

In this way, it's possible to have more money, and therefore more options, and still feel worse about the things you can't do because you don't have enough money.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Aurelius quote is a bit ironic since Aurelius is still remembered despite the passage of many generations.

On a long enough timeline the memory of Marcus Aurelius will extinguish.

That's a strong claim given that we don't yet fully understand the laws of physics.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#227
post #168

From David Brooks: "I’ve been thinking about the difference between the résumé virtues and the eulogy virtues. The résumé virtues are the ones you list on your résumé, the skills that you bring to the job market and that contribute to external success. The eulogy virtues are deeper. They’re the virtues that get talked about at your funeral, the ones that exist at the core of your being — whether you are kind, brave,…

Thing is, by the time your eulogy is written, you're already dead. I prefer to leave my kids with a tangible legacy than a beautiful story of a guy who was too kind to be a dick when he needed to. Besides, words chosen for your eulogy depend on the influence you managed to build while still living.

"...a tangible legacy than a beautiful story of a guy who was too kind to be a dick when he needed to..."

That is the shortest, best description of Machiavelli's ideas that I've ever seen.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#228
post #168

From David Brooks: "I’ve been thinking about the difference between the résumé virtues and the eulogy virtues. The résumé virtues are the ones you list on your résumé, the skills that you bring to the job market and that contribute to external success. The eulogy virtues are deeper. They’re the virtues that get talked about at your funeral, the ones that exist at the core of your being — whether you are kind, brave,…

This is anecdotal, but I experienced a tectonic shift in both my personal success and happiness when I refocused my attention on the "eulogy" virtues. In my experience if you live those honestly the others fall into place rather organically.

Note also that the "eulogy" virtues are actually possible for the vast majority of people.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#229
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates did. Not sure either Musk or Jobs had rich families. You may want to check that.

Musk 100% comes from wealth [1]. In America, there's the whole mythos of the rags-to-riches American dream. Some people whose story is really riches-to-more-riches present their success as the former. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musks-dad-tells-bi-abou...

Elon recently confirmed that this store is not true on twitter. It's inside a reply thread so can't find the source at the moment.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing the same in SFBA would probably require at least $250K. Maybe more. Why? Each child might consume, generously, an extra 5k of food and 2.5k of clothes and other inputs per year. This is an increment of $30k on top of housing. For housing, you could add one or at most two bedrooms for four children. This does substantially raise housing costs, but there are still places in Sunnyvale for $1M or just above that…

Cheap homes in the Bay Area have terrible schools. You’ll need to factor in private school if you go that route. That’s $25k per kid per year.

What exactly is a "terrible school"?

My elementary and middle schools were 4/10 and 5/10 on "Greatschools" in North Carolina.

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