Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#221

Post by dependenttypes » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #171

prepend wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was illegal in both countries, I wouldn’t need to be extradited since I was gay in Ireland too. Assange isn’t being accused of things that are criminal in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_criminality Whether or not the requirement is met in Assange's case is to be decided by the court. There are certainly laws in the UK that prohibit hacking. Anyway, you are wrong in general about how extradition works. People are often, for example, extradited on murder charges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon

While there are certainly laws in UK that prohibit hacking (which should be abolished) they are clearly not enough to perform an extradition.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#222

Post by MiroF » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:05 PM UTC

anongraddebt wrote: post #122

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

I used to be a fairly strong supporter of our military. Not blanket support (since there are always exceptions to anything), and I wasn't super enthusiastic/patriotic like some are, but in general I had a pretty positive view. My uncle is a general in the Air Force, all three of my grandfathers fought in WW2 (my Dad's biological father was killed by a drunk driver when he was 7), etc etc. I have pictures of my grandf…

Manning's Collateral Murder video was a turning point in my political views.

To see the people responsible for getting that out - something that should never have been kept secret - imprisoned and hunted across the world has only confirmed those views.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#223

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:05 PM UTC

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #214

Due process will strangely, coincidentally, be EXTREMELY SLOW. ... kind of like Guantanamo.

> Due process will strangely, coincidentally, be EXTREMELY SLOW.

Assange and his attorneys have, from day one, done everything possible to extend the process; there is nothing coincidental about the result.

> ... kind of like Guantanamo.

Guantanamo is a whole different problem, where people have actually received all the process there is, been determined to be innocent or not even subject to a y charges, and are still detained.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#224

Post by foldr » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:05 PM UTC

dependenttypes wrote: post #221

foldr wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_criminality Whether or not the requirement is met in Assange's case is to be decided by the court. There are certainly laws in the UK that prohibit hacking. Anyway, you are wrong in general about how extradition works. People are often, for example, extradited on murder charges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon While there are certainly laws in UK that prohibit hacking (which should be abolished) they are clearly not enough to perform an extradition.

That's a legal question for the court to decide. I wouldn't say that there's anything "clear" about it.

If you actually read the article on the McKinnon case, you'll see that extradition was ultimately refused by the home secretary - not the courts - on largely compassionate grounds:

"Mr McKinnon is accused of serious crimes. But there is also no doubt that he is seriously ill [...] He has Asperger's syndrome, and suffers from depressive illness. Mr McKinnon's extradition would give rise to such a high risk of him ending his life that a decision to extradite would be incompatible with Mr McKinnon's human rights."

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#225

Post by malvosenior » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:07 PM UTC

jml78 wrote: post #210

malvosenior wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was forged by Russian Intelligence?

You do know that Wikileaks was on the verge of releasing damaging info on Putin. Then magically it never happened after Assange was visited by Russian agents. Sorry they are nothing more than a propaganda machine of Russia at this point. They went political in the last election choosing to keep GOP documents silenced and release the DNC data. I have no issue if Wikileaks wasn’t playing political games. But they are..…

Even if you believe that, it doesn’t answer my question. What information was forged by Russia?

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#226

Post by malvosenior » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:09 PM UTC

fenomas wrote: post #166

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

The most detailed, nuanced account of Assange I've seen is this one[0] by Andrew O'Hagan (an author hired to ghostwrite Assange's autobiography who spent a year or so in and out of his orbit). And it's hard to square that account with the image of Assange as a journalist who's being persecuted for the truths he's shared. Though O'Hagan is sympathetic in many ways he doesn't sugarcoat anything, and I came away with th…

They great thing about Wikileaks is that the data speaks for itself. I don’t care at all about Assange’s personality but I’m very thankful the information he put out there is available to the public. He’s exposed tons of corruption.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#227

Post by MiroF » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #154

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

Faultless record? Absolutely not. They will support /r/conspiracy's lunacy at all costs as long as it somehow ties to Hillary Clinton. This one[1] was the most ridiculous claim they supported, but I'm sure someone who cares more could find dozens or even hundreds more claims made by WikiLeaks that are nothing more than deranged Dale Gribble-esque rants. [1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/san-francisco-tech-assange…

Sorry - were the claims that David Soloff was behind T&C actually made by Wikileaks? Your link provides no evidence of that fact that I see, and from a brief perusal of the primary sources, I don't see Wikileaks ever making that claim either.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#228

Post by seagullz » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

anongraddebt wrote: post #122

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

I used to be a fairly strong supporter of our military. Not blanket support (since there are always exceptions to anything), and I wasn't super enthusiastic/patriotic like some are, but in general I had a pretty positive view. My uncle is a general in the Air Force, all three of my grandfathers fought in WW2 (my Dad's biological father was killed by a drunk driver when he was 7), etc etc. I have pictures of my grandf…

This https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/

It made even one involved soldier to speak out: https://www.wired.com/2011/04/ethan-mccord/

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#229

Post by dependenttypes » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

INGELRII wrote: post #45

plutonorm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarians emphasise the fact he broke laws, everyone else appreciates the moral act.

It's not mutually exclusive. * Sometimes individuals must break the law for greater good. This is called civil disobedience, or civil resistance. * Just because one is breaking the law for common good, civil servants can't and should not be expected to stop enforcing the law. If you allow that, it's the end of the rule of law based society. The whole idea of just society is that you restrict what individuals in the g…

Civil disobedience, along with civil servants that stopped enforcing an unjust law is the reason that my grandmother was able to escape from Germany in 1938. Saving people by stopping the enforcement of an unjust law is more important than trying to defend the abstract concept of the rule of law. To me this seems like yet another collectivist (where it is ok to sacrifice innocents for the "greater good" - depending on your ruler's definition of greater good) vs individualist (where the rights and freedom of a single person is more important than defending an abstract concept) argument.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#230

Post by foldr » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

armitron wrote: post #155

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't police a bail violation and send the offender to jail, then bail is really just a pinky-swear release. Come to court if you want, type of deal.

How many other bail violations have you seen the UK spend millions of pounds for? As a UK citizen, the government stance in the Assange case disgusts me. It's obvious what's going on here, nevermind the "see nothing hear nothing" attitude that's on display.

>How many other bail violations have you seen the UK spend millions of pounds for?

How many others were as high profile? The law has to be seen to be enforced.