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Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

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Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#221

Post by mackey »

oflannabhra wrote: post #119
jes5199 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple, Amazon, and Google are fundamentally opposed to a model that sells devices that don’t phone home - their whole purpose is to capture value by creating lock-in for surveillable hosted services

This is not exactly the case for HomeKit. Apple didn't even add the ability to control devices when you are off your home network until recently.

Not sure I understand. I am pretty sure you have been to remotely control Homekit since the beginning, originally by utilizing an Apple TV 3rd generation, and subsequently with iPads, Apple TV 4th gen/Apple TV 4K, and now HomePods.

Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#222

Post by mr__y »

mattferderer wrote: post #139
mr__y wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the hub was actually secure this still does not prevent from someone near to your house to talk to the devices directly (this applies especially to wireless devices). The hub you described would prevent from the remote attacks only

Security is a never ending rabbit hole. I am more concerned about the bigger threat, global attacks. I get if you live in a densely populated area that drive-by type attacks would be very concerning.

>drive-by type attacks would be very concerning

not only that. One insecure system in the area could be infected and then controlled to attack other networks in the area. With a high density of IoT devices you could have malware spreading wirelessly device-to-device. Also with a wide IoT adoption with such devices being used by public/utilities companies (smart street lamps, leakage monitoring in pipes, smart electric grid etc) you don't even need a densely populated area to have that problem.

>I am more concerned about the bigger threat, global attacks.

I once read something among the lines that IT security needs its own Pearl Harbor event. I can neither quote it exactly or attribute it to any source

Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#223

Post by abstractbarista »

seibelj wrote: post #73

I am planning on wiring my house with ZWave and OpenHAB. Anyone have any experience doing this? Does it work well?

I have 40+ ZWave+ devices and they work great with Home Assistant. From lights to fans to all kinds of sensors, the mesh network seems to have good range and latency (as long as your controller isn't really close to interference).

Definitely don't use older ZWave devices, only ZWave Plus certified ones. This ensures the network is fully encrypted and allows for greater range and throughput.

My next fun project is automating the watering of pots and the garden. Going to combine a ZWave-controlled solenoid with drip irrigation and some Home Assistant smart logic (daily rain, sun hours, humidity, temperature) to handle it.

Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#224

Post by dorfsmay »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #199

10 years in the trenches here. Apple’s smart home protocol famously does not support multiple users. Amazon is choosy on what features you can implement (turn on alarms but not turning them off, locking doors but not unlocking them). Google loves using radio hardware no one else supports. Zigbee has delightful legacy security vulnerabilities and consortium drama. I look forward to these groups putting aside their dif…

Is there an alternative today, like a de facto standard based on open specs/protocols?

Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#225

Post by singingboyo »

pkulak wrote: post #211
paulgerhardt wrote: post #199

10 years in the trenches here. Apple’s smart home protocol famously does not support multiple users. Amazon is choosy on what features you can implement (turn on alarms but not turning them off, locking doors but not unlocking them). Google loves using radio hardware no one else supports. Zigbee has delightful legacy security vulnerabilities and consortium drama. I look forward to these groups putting aside their dif…

> Amazon is choosy on what features you can implement Allowing someone to holler into an open (or recently broken) window to open my front door sounds terrifying.

I, on the other hand, am on the 17th floor. Anyone who can holler at a smart device in my apartment has already compromised something important, and could probably get in anyway.

Also, just require a passphrase? To go full star trek, "[Alexa/Google/Siri], unlock the front door, authorisation singingboyo Alpha Pi Pi Zulu" sounds workable.

Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#226

Post by matt-attack »

pkulak wrote: post #211
paulgerhardt wrote: post #199

10 years in the trenches here. Apple’s smart home protocol famously does not support multiple users. Amazon is choosy on what features you can implement (turn on alarms but not turning them off, locking doors but not unlocking them). Google loves using radio hardware no one else supports. Zigbee has delightful legacy security vulnerabilities and consortium drama. I look forward to these groups putting aside their dif…

> Amazon is choosy on what features you can implement Allowing someone to holler into an open (or recently broken) window to open my front door sounds terrifying.

I bet you sleep fine knowing anyone can simply pick your locks to get in using knowledge easily obtained on YouTube and using tools readily available.

Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#227

Post by CiPHPerCoder »

> Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Tesla and Google's parent company, Alphabet are named in the lawsuit

The comma misuse is legendary.

https://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuat...

Fixed: Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Tesla, and Google's parent company, Alphabet, are named in the lawsuit

Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#228

Post by mr__y »

derefr wrote: post #151
ludamad wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone found Alexa way too easy to trigger? As someone who frequently talks about people with a similar name, I'm amazed at how often Alexa chimes in. I think 'OK Google' is at a sweet spot (although my parents for ages were convinced 'hi google' would work if they tried enough :)

Sometimes mine starts responding to... nothing. As in, in the midst of silence in the middle of the night, like a dog barking at ghosts, it'll answer a question literally nothing asked.

Also relevant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeQD4UdGY-A

Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard

#229

Post by PaulHoule »

Symmetry wrote: post #170
kbumsik wrote: post #112

For someone who thinks Zigbee already is an open standard, well, it is NOT really open though. A standard being publicity available does not always make it open-source friendly. Linux considers it a proprietary protocol [1] so Zigbee driver cannot be part of Linux kernel. Although Zigbee spec allows non-commercial individuals to freely use it, a commercial organization must be a member of the Zigbee Alliance in order…

There's also the bit where Zigbee devices have to share a secret key to talk to each other, mostly to prevent competition from low cost devices manufactured in China.

Key exchange for IoT devices is a tricky problem.

IoT devices don't support public key infrastructure, e.g. something like GnuPG or the SSL certificates used by web browsers.

It's a very practical solution to have a shared secret between the device and a central server, and, at registration time, have the central server make a key for both the hub and the device.

Without some kind of key exchange, people could set off your alarm, turn on your lights, open your door...

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