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Google claims copyright on employee side projects

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Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#221

Post by _bxg1 »

christophilus wrote: post #133
q3k wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm from my experience (~10 years in the industry). I've never even heard of this practice until I applied to Google. None of the EU companies I've worked at before had anything like this. None of the EU companies I've worked at since had anything like this. It's US imperialism, nothing less.

I work in the US and have always had side-projects, and have never signed anything which would give my employer the rights to them. I think this isn't just a US thing, but a US mega-corporate thing, maybe?

Mega-corps have a) broader domains of "what's relevant" and b) more lawyers to actually take action on this stuff. Those are the only real differences. I've turned down jobs with even smaller companies over this.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#222

Post by thedaemon »

Yizahi wrote: post #116

"usbmuxd was rejected without an explanation. My follow-up email asking for clarification was ignored." Isn't it funny that Google employees themselves at least sometimes can taste how other Google "products" feel when their accounts are banned, deleted and there is zero ways to appeal such decisions?

What's really funny to me is Google trying to claim copyright on a GPL project.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#223

Post by Sean1708 »

btmorex wrote: post #82
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #65

I personally think this is just another step in a series of many reminding us that Google has become just another US corporation. And a way those grow is by finding 'efficiencies','doing more with less' and leveraging their size. It is an end of an era. Then again, Jimmy Johns was always pretty bad for the workers and attempted to have kids working there signing non-competes. Maybe we should be happy it took google s…

When was Google ever anything but "just another US corporation"?

When it was still two guys in a garage?

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#224

Post by Aunche »

danShumway wrote: post #210
Aunche wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Google or any other company actually used this for "evil" though? It sounds like it's just a necessary part of doing business in the US. Don't hate the player. Hate the game. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure rules like these make it easier to sue someone if they steal your source code like with Levandowski.

> Has Google or any other company actually used this for "evil" though? From the original Twitter thread: > usbmuxd was rejected without an explanation. My follow-up email asking for clarification was ignored. > I ended up having to hand over maintainership of usbmuxd. Different people have different thresholds for evil, but I consider that to be at least unethical. OP was working on usbmuxd before they joined Google…

I mean. You can just always ignore what lawyers say, and just work on open source projects under a pseudonym while you're employed there, which is what the OP did anyways. The worst thing that happened to the OP is that he pissed off some lawyers, and got into an argument with a guy. Also, Google can't own any of your code you did before you're employed there, just any new code from when you're employed by them.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#225

Post by _bxg1 »

celticmusic wrote: post #202
fierarul wrote: post #104

> Oh, please. It's standard industry practice for companies to claim ownership of everything a software engineer comes up with, even "on their own time". In the US. Problem is the US is infecting the rest of the world too, especially through subsidiaries which basically just translate from English the 'standard' employment contract. I had to refuse employment in Romania since the clauses were so broad and basically i…

I always ask that this specific clause be removed, and if they refuse I don't go work for them. I don't really understand how people don't get offended at the idea of a company owning any work that you do. At that point you've lost your autonomy as a human being.

Yep. My creative life is my lifeblood. Signing it away would be literally selling my soul.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#226

Post by bpicolo »

tyingq wrote: post #40
draugadrotten wrote: post #11

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

"Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time." Not a Michelin restaurant, but apparently Outback Steakhouse makes that exact claim. "Inventions, Ideas, Processes, and Designs. All inventions, ideas, recipes, processes, programs, software, and designs ...conceived or made by Employee during the course of Employee’s employment with the Employer (whether or…

I'm partially unclear on how this affects either party. Recipes are explicitly not copyrightable. "Ideas" also seem like an unprotected asset outside of specific NDAs.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#227

Post by [deleted] »

q3k wrote: post #114
fierarul wrote: post #104

> Oh, please. It's standard industry practice for companies to claim ownership of everything a software engineer comes up with, even "on their own time". In the US. Problem is the US is infecting the rest of the world too, especially through subsidiaries which basically just translate from English the 'standard' employment contract. I had to refuse employment in Romania since the clauses were so broad and basically i…

Can confirm from my experience (~10 years in the industry). I've never even heard of this practice until I applied to Google. None of the EU companies I've worked at before had anything like this. None of the EU companies I've worked at since had anything like this. It's US imperialism, nothing less.

[deleted]

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#228

Post by tyingq »

bpicolo wrote: post #226
tyingq wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time." Not a Michelin restaurant, but apparently Outback Steakhouse makes that exact claim. "Inventions, Ideas, Processes, and Designs. All inventions, ideas, recipes, processes, programs, software, and designs ...conceived or made by Employee during the course of Employee’s employment with the Employer (whether or…

I'm partially unclear on how this affects either party. Recipes are explicitly not copyrightable. "Ideas" also seem like an unprotected asset outside of specific NDAs.

Maybe just as a "trade secret" that you're not allowed to share outside the company. (Edit, yes...there's an NDA section that calls out recipies)

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#229

Post by adventskalender »

q3k wrote: post #114
fierarul wrote: post #104

> Oh, please. It's standard industry practice for companies to claim ownership of everything a software engineer comes up with, even "on their own time". In the US. Problem is the US is infecting the rest of the world too, especially through subsidiaries which basically just translate from English the 'standard' employment contract. I had to refuse employment in Romania since the clauses were so broad and basically i…

Can confirm from my experience (~10 years in the industry). I've never even heard of this practice until I applied to Google. None of the EU companies I've worked at before had anything like this. None of the EU companies I've worked at since had anything like this. It's US imperialism, nothing less.

That's nonsense. In Germany the default for contracts is that you need your employers permission to do side projects. Germany is in the EU.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#230

Post by twunde »

christophilus wrote: post #133
q3k wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm from my experience (~10 years in the industry). I've never even heard of this practice until I applied to Google. None of the EU companies I've worked at before had anything like this. None of the EU companies I've worked at since had anything like this. It's US imperialism, nothing less.

I work in the US and have always had side-projects, and have never signed anything which would give my employer the rights to them. I think this isn't just a US thing, but a US mega-corporate thing, maybe?

I hadn't seen this until recently. It seems to be pushed by VCs and the tech megacorps, so if you work at a VC-backed startup it's likely in your contract or if you work for one of the bigger tech companies. I believe IBM had this for a long time. If you're working for a company outside of "pure tech", it's much rarer
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