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Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

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Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#221

Post by amanaplanacanal »

DanBC wrote: post #210
frostyj wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't really understand the attitude such as 'if they want to do drug, let them do it in a safe way at least'. It sounds compassionate and all, but isn't doing drug just, WRONG? I somehow feel this is an encouragement to them.

Taking drugs is wrong. It is wrong because it harms the person and the people around them and wider society. Ideally we'd have no-one who becomes addicted to drugs. But the existence of substance misuse disorders means we will always have addicts, and by definition addicts take drugs even when they know they are being harmed by those drugs. These people are not encouraged by safe injection spaces, because they were a…

Although I agree with your conclusion, every adult I know takes either caffeine, alcohol, or cannabis. Calling it morally wrong seems off to me.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#222

Post by ryandrake »

supernova87a wrote: post #164

I echo the point that this is merely a symptom of SF's inability to be a little bit more hardnosed and solve its problems. As an example: I called 311/911 to report a trio of homeless guys, operating a bike chop shop in broad daylight on a Saturday in downtown (and blocking the sidewalk, and creating piles of junk). The operator said that she would report this to the "neighborhood outreach / management team" or somet…

> As an example: I called 311/911 to report a trio of homeless guys, operating a bike chop shop

First of all, I hope you called 311 and not 911 for this. It's obviously not a life-threatening emergency.

> I asked, incredulous, "isn't this a police matter that you should pursue right now? How will they still be here in 3 days?" She gave some unsatisfactory answer of course.

As (hopefully) established above, this is not an emergency, so I don't understand why you'd expect a squad of detectives to race out there right away. From your description, it doesn't sound like anyone was in danger. Sorry, but the police are not bellhops that you can just summon when you feel irritated about something that's happening outside.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#223

Post by confidantlake »

blueadept111 wrote: post #185
confidantlake wrote: post #155

A huge problem is the lack of public toilets. When I first lived there, I got locked out of my apartment and could not find anywhere to go to the bathroom. I had to wait until my roommate got back. If I did not have a place to go back to, what could have I done except poop on the street?

Wouldn't a restaurant or fast food outlet let you use their bathroom? I think if you make it clear that your options are to take a dump either on their toilet or right where you're standing, they would show you the toilet immediately.

I went to a fast food outlet, the toilet was so full of waste that it was overflowing onto the floor. Super disgusting. All of the restaurants did not have public backrooms. I guess I could have begged them, and they probably would have let me because I was not homeless. But that is not a sustainable solution. Do we really want homeless people begging restaurants to use the bathroom every time they need to poop?

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#224

Post by paulddraper »

vsef wrote: post #174
paulddraper wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> state-level or national problems Sincere question: Why does San Francisco seem to be the only one with those news stories (not NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami, etc.)?

LA and San Diego have both had ongoing major news stories involving hepatitis outbreaks due to unsanitary homeless conditions, I think you are just noticing SF stories.

I don't think the problem is on my end.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=poop+streets&ia=news

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#226

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

xnyan wrote: post #209
larnmar wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And yet, in a sort of collective Gell-Mann amnesia, I’m pretty sure that tomorrow I’ll load up HN, there’ll be an article on prisons, and people will be upvoted for solemnly intoning how terrible it is that so many Americans are in prison, with dissenters greyed out and soon shadowbanned. So let me take this opportunity to say: there are far too few Anericans in prison. The number should be much higher. Prison…

What makes you say too few in jail? Do you have any evidence that more people in jail=better outcomes? I’m willing to listen in good faith.

I'd say not having bicycle chop shops out in the open in broad daylight is a better outcome, wouldn't you?

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#227

Post by BurningFrog »

rcoveson wrote: post #204
altShiftDev wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, actually it does. You simply have to act like other countries in which it isn't a problem.

As long as we're calling out answers that are really easy to come up with but impossible to implement, I'd like to offer a few: * For mass shootings: Un-invent guns * For poop in the streets: Devise a zero-waste diet that obviates defecation * For both problems: Simply make all the bad people act like the good people

Without arguing about what factors cause it, it's undeniable that

1. Non US rich countries have much less mass shootings.

2. Non SF major US cities have much less street poop.

This shows that neither problem is unavoidable.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#228

Post by DanBC »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #221
DanBC wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking drugs is wrong. It is wrong because it harms the person and the people around them and wider society. Ideally we'd have no-one who becomes addicted to drugs. But the existence of substance misuse disorders means we will always have addicts, and by definition addicts take drugs even when they know they are being harmed by those drugs. These people are not encouraged by safe injection spaces, because they were a…

Although I agree with your conclusion, every adult I know takes either caffeine, alcohol, or cannabis. Calling it morally wrong seems off to me.

I agree with you if I'm honest. I don't think I'm going to persuade parent poster about that, but I hope that agreeing on that builds a bit of common ground which hopefully makes my other points land better. I don't know if this works or if it's transparently manipulative.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#229

Post by danschumann »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #55
malvosenior wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity why is that not a solution? Why is it inherently better for them to live on the streets of SF than someplace with running water and electricity? It's also obviously better for the citizens of SF to not have to deal with human feces, dirty needles and massive amounts of property crime (at the least). There's tons of empty space in the US, it seems reasonable to move people who are breaking the law, ca…

As an outsider I feel SF (and CA, HI) have this hyper-tolerance for identity and personal freedom that makes any discourse in opinion just unacceptable...

well focus on the identity of the innocent person trying to go to their job without being harassed by people on the streets.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#230

Post by noodle »

shados wrote: post #170
supernova87a wrote: post #164

I echo the point that this is merely a symptom of SF's inability to be a little bit more hardnosed and solve its problems. As an example: I called 311/911 to report a trio of homeless guys, operating a bike chop shop in broad daylight on a Saturday in downtown (and blocking the sidewalk, and creating piles of junk). The operator said that she would report this to the "neighborhood outreach / management team" or somet…

That's a trend all over the country. I read an article about Seattle almost completely giving up on this type and other non violent crimes. The east coast, like in Boston is getting there too. If no one is about to die, just shut up and deal with it.

AFAIK one of the causes in Seattle (can't speak to SF) is a lack of police resources - the population boom left them kind of far behind. Seattle has ~20 officers per 10k residents. To compare, Atlanta has ~30, NYC has ~40.
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