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An update on YC China

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: An update on YC China

#221

Post by arcticfox »

tptacek wrote: post #49
jessewmc wrote: post #11

Strange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. I could see them hitting some roadblocks and wanting to try again to get into China, but that would be a reasonable thing to come out and say. It also would be reasonable to come out and say they've changed their minds due to political climate or some other risks. Instead its... the new guy is busy?

What elephant? Can you be more specific about what's controversial about this? Expansion into China would at least be a coherent basis for this stuff; then, sure, you'd want to know what compromises YC might be forced to make to stay in the good graces of their new host. This is YC withdrawing from China.

I think you might be misinterpreting the parent. Nothing is controversial about the move itself, the elephant in the room is why they're doing it. They mention a change of strategy, but don't really spell out why.

It's pretty obvious why; everyone would be in China in a huge way if it wasn't for their trade abuse and/or human rights abuses.

Re: An update on YC China

#222

Post by ClemFandango »

realusername wrote: post #214
undefined3840 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s understandable it’s a touchy subject. Why piss off China if you don’t have to? Only something to lose and nothing to gain. Also this story of a Chinese Stanford professor/investor’s “suicide” last year is quite the story. There’s a potential safety issue here too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/arthurherman/2018/12/13/a-death...

> It’s understandable it’s a touchy subject. Why piss off China if you don’t have to? Only something to lose and nothing to gain. Because that's pushing the line further and further of what the CCP can make people accept.

Business won't be the one to push the change on this attitude. It has to be people, or at best government. Most companies are morally agnostic, they only follow the money, you can judge them for it either way, but it's the truth.

Re: An update on YC China

#223

Post by arcticfox »

tomnipotent wrote: post #172
peteretep wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be deeply misinformed about what the term McCarthyism means.

Mc·Car·thy·ism: "A campaign or practice that endorses the use of unfair allegations and investigations." No, he's not deeply misinformed. Perfect example is the ridiculous spying bullshit that SuperMicro was accused of earlier this year.

> Perfect example is the ridiculous spying bullshit that SuperMicro was accused of earlier this year.

Everyone, from the general public, to corporate America, to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security, raked Bloomberg over the coals for that story. If anything, I think that's a sign that McCarthyism is hardly in play here.

Re: An update on YC China

#224

Post by master-litty »

colechristensen wrote: post #80

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

Naive perspective: Is it possible that this language prevents YC from being blocked by the Great Firewall?

I'm not sure I'd advocate it, but I see the potential argument: It's better to let users see YC's independent decision to not conduct business in China, even with vague reasoning, as there's no realistic narrative that would put China in a great light.

The alternative is to be completely censored. If the intent is to spread a message within, I would think an uncensored message is better than no message at all.

Re: An update on YC China

#226

Post by smashah »

undefined3840 wrote: post #66
jessewmc wrote: post #11

Strange optics not to mention the elephant in the room. I could see them hitting some roadblocks and wanting to try again to get into China, but that would be a reasonable thing to come out and say. It also would be reasonable to come out and say they've changed their minds due to political climate or some other risks. Instead its... the new guy is busy?

It’s understandable it’s a touchy subject. Why piss off China if you don’t have to? Only something to lose and nothing to gain. Also this story of a Chinese Stanford professor/investor’s “suicide” last year is quite the story. There’s a potential safety issue here too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/arthurherman/2018/12/13/a-death...

> It’s understandable it’s a touchy subject. Why piss off China if you don’t have to? Only something to lose and nothing to gain.

Same sentiment for Saudi investors? Same for Israeli?

People have different lines and I'm sure soon founders will be doing a great more DD in this new age of outwardly conscious capitalism.

I'm patiently waiting for the tweet thread/medium article of a successful founder pointing out all the dirty cash they didn't take. Unfortunately, as of yet it is still a great deal of money that builds companies. Not unwaivering morals... One day.

Re: An update on YC China

#227

Post by archibaldJ »

OP here (no affiliation with YC in anyway), posted the link because was surprised it wasn't already on HN.

I first got to know about it on WeChat actually. There was an announcement from the official WeChat account of YC China in regard to the split-up (link: https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SnSsli_ZGo0yI58YD-ddaw), though the announcement took a much more positive and exciting tone than its English counterpart. The announcement from YC China talked a lot about 本土化 (which is not to be confused with sinicisation （汉化））。 As someone who has moved back to China recently, I noticed that 本土化 is actually a really big thing in China and it basically means localisation on steroid to become more similar to other products/services in China in every aspect (including HR, internal operations, etc).

Anyway I'm fascinated by all the comments here, none of which discussed the cultural and sociopolitical differences between that of the west and that of China, which I believe is one of the main factors that have enabled the disintegration between YC and YC China.

The Chinese government is one thing. But "the Chinese way" is another thing. And "the Chinese way" actually underlines how the Chinese society works and how the Chinese government functions. To understand "the Chinese way", one has to try to emulate a generalisation of how a Chinese person thinks and acts in this day and age after all these revolutions and wars and pandemonium that have shaped the land and the way people interpret things and interact with one another. Without great knowledge in the modern Chinese history and a good grasp of the contemporary Chinese language and culture (from a none-bias perspective as much as possible), it's extremely difficult to form a proper mental representation of "the Chinese way". The thing is not many Chinese people are aware of this too (since they are already operating under "the Chinese way", emulating it would be like running a meta-circular interpreter - not impossible just highly difficult for an average person). Perhaps this is why people (Chinese and none-Chinese) often resort to understanding China through the lens of the media (i.e. state-sponsored or company-sponsored) and that is akin to looking at a 2d projection of a higher dimension object.

Re: An update on YC China

#228

Post by sumedh »

billfruit wrote: post #202
pcbro141 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ~1 million Uighurs the Chinese government has in concentration camps. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/ch...

The international community barely cares about what India is similarly doing in Kashmir, despite India being a democracy. In effect the most fundamental right in a democracy, the right to habeas corpus is suspended there. There is much politically informed anti-China coverage in the MSM, so it is hard to take reports on China from them without much skepticism. Even in Hong Kong it is on display that the police are la…

Is India running concentration camps as well?

Re: An update on YC China

#229

Post by m0zg »

That's to be expected. IMO we should decouple and diversify as quickly as we can. It took Trump to highlight that fact, which tells me the establishment was OK with selling out US of A for a buck as quickly as the Chinese would buy it, sweatshops and concentration camps notwithstanding. It's not like they didn't know. It's just that the right bureaucratic wheels were greased with money at the right times by those who stood to gain from it all.
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