Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

pedrocr.pt

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 421 posts

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#221

Post by FpUser »

headmelted wrote: post #142
FpUser wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the desktop doesn’t matter anymore most casual users gave up computers for smartphones years ago I would consider either statement to be completely false. While less people have full blown desktops almost everyone has laptop and modern laptops are good enough. I would agree that there are many poor countries/places where people can only afford smartphone. But hopefully the future of humanity is to get better rather t…

I don’t think sales figures support the notion that everyone has a laptop at all but I’d be happy to stand corrected.

I have few laptops. One is very old, 5-6 years I think gaming Asus. It still runs all titles just fine. If I was not a programmer why would I upgrade from that one? This can obviously make people upgrade less.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#222

Post by ClumsyPilot »

I am getting the impression the author is fighting yesterday’s war and on top of that has not been following what's going on in windows/.Net development lately. There has been a large-scale effort to open-source and port chunks of Windows and .Net Framework

WinForms 'the win95-style UI' https://github.com/dotnet/winforms

WPF 'the Vista-style UI' https://github.com/dotnet/wpf

WinUI3 'the Modern-style UI' https://github.com/microsoft/microsoft-ui-xaml

Windows Communications Foundation https://github.com/dotnet/wcf

And more stuff I am not aware of. Judge as you wish, but if you are going to discuss the topic, they are important.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#223

Post by juststeve »

fhery wrote: post #196
Nullabillity wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. NuGet constantly fails silently when trying to restore packages. Visual Studio is an editor built primarily around a folder tree, with no competent way to navigate that tree without constantly losing your place. It's also the only IDE that I have used where I just had to give up trying to find the application logs. > Because sql server is a fantastic pr…

Wow, you must've been trying hard to cherry pick those. I'm actually curious about this one: >SSMS is an unusable hog. There is just no nice way to put it. I've been using both postgre and sql server for like 1.5 year and tooling difference between pgAdmin and SSMS is insane SSMS is mature, reliable and makes my life easier meanwhile pgAdmin is just viable, but nothing more. Generally SQL Server seems to be years ahe…

When you type Install-Package in Visual Studio, sometimes it just fails to find the package at all. You have to search for it first, then type Install-Package, and then it actually downloads etc.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#224

Post by officeplant »

threatofrain wrote: post #145
hamsapelea wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm the average joe is already using google drive rather than office et al. Works on linux and mac better than the office stack works on windows.

Average student is using Google Docs and Drive but the office workers I hear are driven by corporate culture, and traditional places of work like accounting offices haven’t culturally embraced these kinds of solutions.

It's not like we are using modern products in most local companies I've worked for in the last decade. Everyone is still on 2008 and older office products. Hell I'm lucky we have AutoCAD LT 2014 at my current job. Its the most up to date piece of software in the whole office other than web browsers.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#225

Post by Kwpolska »

SirLotsaLocks wrote: post #80
wayneftw wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At one time, Manjaro Linux came with Microsoft Office pre-installed. The apps were built with python jade application kit with embedded webviews that take you to the online version - https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/manjaro-ms-office-online...

That's impressive, has anyone else done something like this?

That's not impressive in any way. They just launch a window with a web view and go to Microsoft’s Office Online. That was already a thing in 2007/2008. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site-specific_browser

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#226

Post by blub »

tracker1 wrote: post #76

It feels like this article is a lot of FUD spreading. MS is a business that likes to make money. At this point, there are developer minded people at the helm, and it makes more sense selling their software and cloud services than chasing negative returns on Windows. I can see that side of it through and through. MS has open sourced huge amounts of resource and platform building code in .Net Core the past several year…

You couldn't be more wrong.

Since Nadella is at the helm, Microsoft have started to aggressively gather customer data from their desktop OS and many other products, including office.

They used to be very decent at this before Windows 10, but they went completely nuts with telemetry. At the beginning they were completely opaque, to the point that a German gov agency had to reverse engineer the communications to see just wtf was being transmitted.

More recently the Dutch gov told them to fuck off if they don't cut off the crap and MS was forced to negotiate new privacy terms with them.

Anything they have already and will open source pales in comparison to the harms to our privacy, just like for Google. Although Google at least open sources some useful things now and then... .NET is Microsoft's dev platform that no one cares about except Windows devs. It started as a JVM/Java clone and grew into its own product, but for anyone not already all-in on MS tools it makes zero sense to use it when there's so much choice.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#227

Post by excursionist »

caspper69 wrote: post #165
Someone1234 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. Constantly looking for others to blame (Microsoft, DRM, Google, Valve, Apple, etc) doesn't change that fact. The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that. Linux Desktop is exclusively designed for Linux developers, it is…

> Personally I don't think it can be fixed not because the software is beyond saving, but the community surrounding it doesn't actually want it to be an experience for regular non-technical people. Try going to a mailing list and suggesting that editing text files in /etc isn't a practical end-user experience and see what response you get. Thank you. This is the truth, and your attitude on the issue will tell you whi…

> The non-technical among us, the 80-90% if you will, are not going to use a desktop Linux distribution the way they are currently setup. A home user is not going to use Google to fix a problem. They're not going to call their technically-inclined family member. They're not going to edit text files nor understand the minutiae of their hardware (and it WILL happen, eventually, 100% guaranteed). They are either going to throw "that piece of shit away" or they're going to call their buddy Steve who can put Windows on it.

So what are they going to do when they encounter a problem on windows? Pretty sure MS hasn't yet figured out how to directly install a Window manual into their userss brains, and the thousands of unanswered windows troubleshooting questions online can attest to that.

> Unfortunately, the community is still "the community," and much like those kids who wouldn't get out of their parents' basements, they're now in their 50s, crusty and pedantic as hell, sitting in their own ivory tower, incidentally not much different than the one they rebelled against in the 90s. Anyway... blah, blah, blah.

Is this basement-dweller fantasy something you have personal experience with or is it just a story you like to tell to make yourself feel better about your own technical ignorance and laziness?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#228

Post by mynameisvlad »

silverfox17 wrote: post #86
Spooky23 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AD will be gone in the 2030 timeframe. Kerberos can’t survive in untrusted networks, and products like Azure AD and Okta are far more profitable, especially since the license that pays for AD (ie windows, even for Linux clients), is required anyway!

Kerberos is designed for untrusted networks.. and Azure AD is just AD hosted somewhere else. Same problems.

> Azure AD is just AD hosted somewhere else

Azure AD DS (https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/active-directory-...) is a specific offering from Azure which gives you a hosted AD instance, but otherwise AAD is completely different.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#229

Post by KingMachiavelli »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #191
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people need an operating system they are comfortable doing their daily work. True, and Windows is very entrenched partly due to Office and legacy software depending on it. Chromebooks and Mac OS seem to be adopted without to much hindrance from a UI perspective. i.e How much more populate would Chromebooks be if they ran the full desktop Office suite? > not all non-devs work only in office. Certainly not all b…

I disagree with this 'legacy software's moniker, all the most productive software falls into this category. Look at the Autodesk Suite, Adobe Suite, Enterprise Architect, blender3D, Unity game engine, a traditional IDE like Jetbrains or VisualStudio. They have waay more power than the their web-based or, worse yet, electron competitors.

I was only referring to software that's still tied to Windows out of legacy/inertia. I'm not saying all desktop applications are legacy. But It's appropriate because if those application were going to be rewritten today, there is no way they would tie them exclusively to the Win32 API.

Blender, Jetbrains IDE's, and even VSCode (pretty sure Unity is multiplatform too) are all working just fine with multiplatform and aren't dependent on any particular OS. If you've ever had to deal with Autodesk like software, it's a mess of old code and poor practices. It's a nightmare getting that kind of software working for Enterprise/Educational environments. Just looking at the Enterprise Architect site brings me back to the days when software used to come on actual disks in large, book-like boxes.

Yes, the software is useful and has yet to be replaced by something more modern, whether web based or at least multi-platform. But that's why it's entrenched in many businesses and Microsoft is riding on the back of that by making sure it's tied to their platform.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#230

Post by shmerl »

derefr wrote: post #42

I’m honestly surprised that Microsoft aren’t working with Linux vendors in an attempt to solve Linux problems by more deeply integrating Windows-styled solutions into Linux, such that the Linux client ecosystem becomes more dependent on the Windows infrastructure ecosystem. That’d be the natural Azure-focused equivalent to “embrace, extend, extinguish.” For example, Linux DNS resolution is an arcane mess of upstream…

No one would want to rely on MS ecosystem. Why would anyone trust them?
Post reply on HN