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Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

thetyee.ca

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Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#221

Post by neilk »

MikeCapone wrote: post #39
neilk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I'm Canadian but I have been out of the country for a longish time now. The whole debate made no sense to me. Yeah it sucks to be charged per byte, but surely Bell has the right to charge however they like. In the linked article, The Tyee's conspiracy theory that they wanted to force people back to television seemed inane. But if it's about imposing a user-based rate structure on Bell's competitors that us…

> but surely Bell has the right to charge however they like. In the linked article, The Tyee's conspiracy theory that they wanted to force people back to television seemed inane. Bell infrastructure (phone lines) is basically a regulated monopoly the same way that a water utility is. They certainly shouldn't have the right to charge whatever they like and crush competition as they please, making things worse for ever…

Well, I left Canada in 2000... before Harper et al. Forgive me for being behind the times.

And when I said Bell has the right to charge whatever, I was making a distinction between their consumer packages and their wholesale rates, both of which are regulated but obviously the wholesale rate should be as close to the actual cost of bandwidth as possible.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#222

Post by warrenwilkinson »

jacquesm wrote: post #191
jarek wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really stinging part is that Bell isn't state owned, even though it certainly acts the part.

Indeed, but Canada has a long history of the government supporting business interests against the interests of its own population. I have a list somewhere that I prepared for an article that I intend to write about this, it's probably never going to happen because I can't get mad enough about it any more (since I've left Canada that sort of thing has gone on the back burner).

I would love to see that list actually. I live in Canada and often debate politics.

If its no trouble, could you please contact me at warrenwilkinson@gmail.com?

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#223

Post by jacquesm »

warrenwilkinson wrote: post #222
jacquesm wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, but Canada has a long history of the government supporting business interests against the interests of its own population. I have a list somewhere that I prepared for an article that I intend to write about this, it's probably never going to happen because I can't get mad enough about it any more (since I've left Canada that sort of thing has gone on the back burner).

I would love to see that list actually. I live in Canada and often debate politics. If its no trouble, could you please contact me at warrenwilkinson@gmail.com?

Sure, I'll dig it up and I'll mail it to you, it's on my todo list now.

It was made because I was planning on writing a book on immigrating to Canada from the perspective of someone that has gone through the whole process, and this was to become one article (a blog post) and / or a chapter in there.

The whole thing had as working title 'movingtoca'.

Canada is a fantastic country but some things there are just - how to say this without insulting Canadians - peculiar.

The system works for the most part but if you don't dig in to Canada's history and do your best to understand the way the various interests interlock there is no way you're going to understand how things got to be the way they are.

To an outsider they'd make no sense at all and to people living there that do not have the historical perspective they probably also do not.

Some of these things date back all the way to the prohibition days of Capone!

How do you explain to an American that the same bottle of wine costs 50% more in rural Canada than in New York City :) ?

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#224

Post by gabbo »

pyre wrote: post #211
gabbo wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few things to add though you painted a pretty good picture: - Shaw is the cable monopoly in the west. Shaw used to have a presence in Ontario but they did a big asset swap about 10 years ago. - A few areas have different cable monopolies but they're vastly smaller than Rogers/Shaw. Cogeco and Videotron, I think. - Beyond Rogers (who bought Microcell a.k.a. Fido) and the smaller players, Bell and Telus actually team…

- I was under the impression that Bell owned Telus or something similar. - I heard about the GSM network, but IIRC there is some sort of transition period going on right now. Also, I've heard varying reports about it. I wasn't sure if they actually had a GSM network or if people were talking about them not using CDMA for 3G internet.

Today's Telus came out of a merger a long time ago between the old Telus and Clearnet. There hasn't been any merger yet, but oddly there are articles floating around speculating that there will be one in the not-too-distant future. Great, just what Canada needs: less choice in telecoms.

Re: the GSM network, I thought it was kind of ridiculous at first for the two carriers to build an entirely new 3G network when their CDMA works just fine. The speculation I heard was (1) they wanted to sell the iPhone (2) roaming revenue for the 2010 Olympics. Neither seemed like enough reason for such huge expense though. I can't find much solid information but I'm willing to bet you're right and their GSM network is available in a few places nationwide.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#225

Post by slavak »

jarek wrote: post #197
slavak wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that be considered a breach of contract? I know that if this happened to me (Israel) the first thing I would do is call up my ISP and threaten a lawsuit unless they provide me the service I signed up for.

Some small print in a terms and conditions document probably says something like "we reserve the right to Manage Our Network (read: throttle you) as we see fit." Also "we reserve the right to terminate the contract at any time for any reason."

This probably depends a great deal on the legal system where you live. Over here there's a decent chance of a "small-print" condition like that being thrown out if it was ever challenged in court. Of course it also helps that usually you sign up with an ISP over the phone, without actually signing any physical contract they can fill with "small-print".

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#226

Post by Swannie »

ergo98 wrote: post #206
nitrogen wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It is within the realm of technology to profitably provide unmetered bandwidth at standard rates, with minimal shaping during peak use hours. To borrow the phrase seen used on here with reference to nuclear power, bandwidth is almost "too cheap to meter." That's what is real. 2. What the ISPs and/or infrastructure owners are charging is orders of magnitude beyond covering costs. Bandwidth is getting cheaper as tec…

Arguing against "ridiculously overpriced internet access" is not bolstered by, pardon the expression, bullshit . 99% of what has been written here, and in the mirror ravings on Reddit, is just pure, unadulterated crap. It's factless nonsense that immediately makes the speaker just look like a selfish twit, desperately trying to spin a reality where only their needs are served. This is not the standards for HN. It is,…

I agree with you. The days of endless fixed utilisation are over.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#227

Post by Swannie »

jacquesm wrote: post #110
pyre wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here in a suburb of Toronto I've had top-notch, > leading-the-bandwidth (15Mbps around the clock) high > speed for a low cost for almost a decade. Toronto is the "New York City" of Canada. Do you look to New York City to be an exact replication of how the entire US looks, works, and functions? This reeks of "Windows never gave me a BSOD therefore all of the people that say they've had a BSOD are lying"-type of argu…

As far as I know that's an accurate representation of the situation.

It's not.

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#228

Post by jarek »

jacquesm wrote: post #223
warrenwilkinson wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see that list actually. I live in Canada and often debate politics. If its no trouble, could you please contact me at warrenwilkinson@gmail.com?

Sure, I'll dig it up and I'll mail it to you, it's on my todo list now. It was made because I was planning on writing a book on immigrating to Canada from the perspective of someone that has gone through the whole process, and this was to become one article (a blog post) and / or a chapter in there. The whole thing had as working title 'movingtoca'. Canada is a fantastic country but some things there are just - how t…

> How do you explain to an American that the same bottle of wine costs 50% more in rural Canada than in New York City :) ?

Shipping cost? If anything, I'd have thought the LCBO, keeping prices uniform across the province, helps rural areas at the expense of higher density areas (though perhaps not strict downtowns where store lease cost might be significant).

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#229

Post by Swannie »

pyre wrote: post #102
ergo98 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The telecommunications situation in Canada is terrible. Your complaint is that some rural area has poor service. Is that not the case around the globe ? I've had high-speed cable service since long before it was available in most urban centers in the US (much less the rest of the world), including when I lived in a mid-sized town. Here in a suburb of Toronto I've had top-notch, leading-the-bandwidth (15Mbps around t…

> Here in a suburb of Toronto I've had top-notch, > leading-the-bandwidth (15Mbps around the clock) high > speed for a low cost for almost a decade. Toronto is the "New York City" of Canada. Do you look to New York City to be an exact replication of how the entire US looks, works, and functions? This reeks of "Windows never gave me a BSOD therefore all of the people that say they've had a BSOD are lying"-type of argu…

Lets clarify a few things.

The ruling last year: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2010/2010-802.htm

The result of consultation on the ruling, and dates for its application: http://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2011/2011-44.htm

This affects the "Gateway Access Services (GAS)" customers. Wholesale Bell customers. (Product details here http://www.wholesale.bell.ca/pdfs/GASDSL.pdf)

And "Third Party Internet Access (TPIA)" customers. Rogers & Shaw Wholesale customers.

The GAS is not local loop unbundling. That is "(ADSL) Access Service" (http://www.bce.ca/en/aboutbce/regulatoryinformation/tarrifs/...)

There are essentially three options for an ISP. Diagrammed below.

PoP = Point of Presence. This is the handover from the access network to the provider network. The equipment found here is often called a BRAS.

    ------------The Internet------------
     |          |          |          |
    ----------Peering Location----------
     |          |          |          |
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:XDSL_Connectivity_Diagram_...

Re: Canadians Just Became World's Biggest Internet Losers.

#230

Post by ZoFreX »

citricsquid wrote: post #52
ronnier wrote: post #36

This really disturbs me. I just moved to Seattle where I signed up for Comcast internet. A couple of days later, my connection stopped working until I activated my account on comcast.com. I did, and the first thing I saw was High-Speed Internet Data Usage: 17% 43GB of 250GB They sure hide that fact when you signup, not that I have any options, as Comcast is the only provider where I live. This is a horrible direction…

Same here. I'm with BT in the UK and I'm on an unlimited* plan with a fair usage policy. This is fine by me, I held off downloading until night time (for both my own convenience and others) but because I had 2mb/s download and a Steam library of 200+ games, I figured I may as well DL my entire library at once. After a couple of days I'd downloaded over 300GB, one night I get an email saying blah blah fair usage cap h…

> unlimited is impossible

Tell that to Virgin. Pay them enough money and they give you real unlimited (as do several other ISPs). BT sucks, but that's pretty widely-known now. The UK is certainly not in the same position as Canada, as we have several options that are genuinely unlimited.

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