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Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

theguardian.com

221–230 of 296 posts

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#221
post #7

The article once more reiterates the fact that Apple doesn't allow other browser engines. You cannot even fight, there is no future ;-) on iOS.

You could run the browser on other machine and use VNC to access this from a iphone (or any other mobile device). While this is rather complicated and probably less reliable solution, the bonus points would be (almost) perfect isolation of the browser process.

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are literally hundreds of apps on the App Store that compete with Apple’s own offerings, especially email clients, calendaring, productivity, etc. So clearly it’s not about competition. Disney+ is being heavily promoted on the App Store, which is direct competitor to Apple’s TV+. We’ve seen 3rd parties like Google and Facebook subvert iOS security before; if Mozilla gets low-level access, then so does Google an…

There are literally zero browser engines allowed on iOS, other than Safari/webkit, with a purposefully depleted feature set, to force developers and users to the app store. It is astounding that overzealous Apple employees and fan boys will employ circuitous mental gymnastics to substantiate Apple policies, instead of simply allowing an open-market to thrive on iOS. It's as if open markets where consumers are allowed…

>There are literally zero browser engines allowed on iOS, other than Safari/webkit, with a purposefully depleted feature set, to force developers and users to the app store.

Apple is clearly moving towards a more secure set of operating systems and that starts by reducing the attack surface.

On macOS, Apple is deprecating kernel extensions; the boot partition on macOS Catalina is read-only so that it can’t be modified by malicious software: https://wccftech.com/macos-catalina-runs-on-dedicated-read-o...

Even Safari on iOS doesn’t support browser extensions.

>instead of simply allowing an open-market to thrive on iOS.

The App Store paid developers $34 billion in 2018; I would say the market is thriving: https://fortune.com/2019/01/28/apple-app-store-developer-ear...

>Safari/webkit, with a purposefully depleted feature set

Just checked html5test.com from my iPhone 7 running iOS 13.2.2; Safari scores 463 and Firefox 48 mobile scored 468 out of 555 points. And this is without enabling a bunch of experimental work-in-progress features: https://imgur.com/a/Y5NHwct

So there's no meaningful difference in capability of these browsers when it comes to features.

Of course, Safari is faster, requires less RAM and consumes less power, which should count for something on a mobile device.

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are literally zero browser engines allowed on iOS, other than Safari/webkit, with a purposefully depleted feature set, to force developers and users to the app store. It is astounding that overzealous Apple employees and fan boys will employ circuitous mental gymnastics to substantiate Apple policies, instead of simply allowing an open-market to thrive on iOS. It's as if open markets where consumers are allowed…

What is this hope for a "thriving open market?" On Android, Chrome/Chromium engine has more than 99.5% marketshare. Consumer choice is a red herring. So for that matter is Firefox, which Google has stomped out on Android. Apple's policy is 100% aimed at preventing Google from controlling the future of iOS.

Let’s not forget that Google had to pay the largest FTC fine for intentionally bypassing the security features on iOS; no wonder Apple doesn't allow low-level access to the operating system: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2012/08/googl...

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#224
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to think of a UI difference in chrome or safari that is meaningful, can't come up with one. Can you elaborate?

You mean UI issues with Firefox, compared to Safari? Gosh, where to start? - Standard keyboard shortcuts for text editing still don't work. That alone is a dealbreaker for me. - The toolbar(s) don't look or work like standard toolbars. The standard toolbar editor is missing, too. - Tabs don't look or act right, either. They're actually styled like Windows XP tabs. - The scroll bars look good, but scrolling doesn't wo…

Yeah, it’s kind of depressing how much better it could be with just a touch of Cocoa; these shortcomings are readily apparent so it wouldn’t even take that much to improve it. I wonder if Mozilla could solve this by just hiring someone who’d focus on improving platform UI to the point where it was competitive with Chrome…

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Write websites with Wasm, render UI with WebGL or something similar. Implement JavaScript as a compiler to Wasm (which runs on Wasmitself), implement HTML+CSS renderer as a library which runs on Wasm as well. So basically your browser need to implement Wasm and WebGL which sounds reasonable task. Well, that's simplification, of course, it need to implement some HTTP API like XMLHttpRequest, local storage API and so o…

Implementing an html rendered that is compatible with all the css rules and it also implements all the extra workarounds that the current browser implement ( like handling illegal markup is not trivial) markup . I mean think about it, you hit invalid html markup and what do you do? You need to continue but now you need to check what Firefox or Chrome do for each case (missing end tags , P inside span, weird nesting o…

Just compile Firefox or Chromium to Wasm and provide necessary adapters.

Well, I'm joking, of course, it's not that simple. But it should be possible in the end.

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are literally zero browser engines allowed on iOS, other than Safari/webkit, with a purposefully depleted feature set, to force developers and users to the app store. It is astounding that overzealous Apple employees and fan boys will employ circuitous mental gymnastics to substantiate Apple policies, instead of simply allowing an open-market to thrive on iOS. It's as if open markets where consumers are allowed…

>There are literally zero browser engines allowed on iOS, other than Safari/webkit, with a purposefully depleted feature set, to force developers and users to the app store. Apple is clearly moving towards a more secure set of operating systems and that starts by reducing the attack surface. On macOS, Apple is deprecating kernel extensions; the boot partition on macOS Catalina is read-only so that it can’t be modifie…

This response literally proves fanboys and employees will offer circuitous logic to substantiate Apple. iOS Safari W3C non-compliance is well known, a little googling will lay out the (intentionally) missing features.

You go to lengths to defend Apple, but do not have the guts to let the consumer pick a Google/Mozilla alternative engine. What is Apple so scared of, if not a level playing field.

This is the same company that retroactively modified it's store policies to substantiate booting steam off the app store. Courage in the face of competition, not!!

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#227

Mozilla really has a big challenge. It is hard to compete with such powerful companies, creating a sustainable business with their mission without succumbing to ads or stopping to protect user privacy. It looks like an unfair game. I like the Brave business model. I wish to have the same with Firefox.

Firefox seems reluctant to innovate in the web though. You need to at least push for some change in order to see it. They 've barely wet their feet with that, very reluctantly and not with enthusiasm (like with Persona).

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to think of a UI difference in chrome or safari that is meaningful, can't come up with one. Can you elaborate?

i have way too many tabs open at all times, and chrome makes it way way easier to see what I have open and get to the tab I want quickly.(it just shows more tabs than Firefox, this is my main complaint) The top bar uses less vertical real estate and is just much cleaner overall. I can see more if not all of the url. Chromes next tab left, next tab right, and close tab, automatically map to the keyboard shortcut I set…

Interesting, my complaint about Chrome's UI is that it doesn't support Tree Style Tabs (or an equivalent) so I can't have that many tabs open at once.

Re: Firefox’s Fight for the Future of the Web

#229

It would seem that the Brave browser and Firefox share similar goals on privacy. It’s hard to navigate the differences in their perspectives on this, why would one choose one of these browsers over the other if concerned about online tracking?

Brave stops ads from tracking you but the browser itself records your browsing behavior and allows ads to use that anonymized data to target ads to you. Their marketing always mentions the former and never mentions the latter. The goal of Brave is to build a model for web advertising that pays the user but gives Brave the lion’s share; this essentially replaces the search engines and social networks as the nexus of w…

the data stays in your computer though, doesnt travel to their servers. that's very significant

I 'm not sure Brave's model will work, but at least they are giving websites more options , which is more important imho than fighting for who will have the fastest rendering engine.

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