Why Is the Migration to Python 3 Taking So Long?

Post by user5994461 » Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 1:32 AM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #218

user5994461 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps you, you can consider that no version below 3.5 is worth thinking of. It's the edge when python added back enough features to ease the migration and many libraries started being ported. Current version is 3.7. If you expect your migration work to take a year, you should consider going for 3.7 and above only, because the previous minor versions will be dropped by the time you're done.

Thank you (and it's good to say so if another reader doesn't know), but yeah, the 4 versions I was referring to were 3.5-3.8... but my point is that it's now a perpetually moving target. And fwiw "3.7 is the current version" doesn't help my users.

Post by Scramblejams » Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 1:40 AM UTC

dividuum wrote: post #62

downerending wrote: post #8

Because there's been not enough carrot and too much stick. The only real killer feature of Python3 is the async programming model. Unfortunately, the standard library version is numbingly complex. (Curio is far easier to follow, but doesn't appear to have a future.) On the down side, switching to Unicode strings is a major hurdle. It mostly "just works", but when it doesn't, it can be difficult to see what's going on…

> The only real killer feature of Python3 is the async programming model. I understand that this is one of the major features, but I personally never saw the appeal, given that gevent exists and in my experience works well most of the time. It also allows me to multiplex IO operations and doesn't rely on new syntax. I'm probably missing something?

Post by CriticalCathed » Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

ageofwant wrote: post #171

recursivecaveat wrote: post #81

The simple reason is that there was no compelling feature to reward you for upgrading. You'd spend a tremendous amount of effort for dubious return and (until recently) a smaller ecosystem. 1. Unicode support was actually an anti-feature for most existing code. If you're writing a simple script you prefer 'garbage-in, garbage-out' unicode rather than scattering casts everywhere to watch it randomly explode when an in…

Again with the 'Tremendous amount of effort' meme. I've done many ports and they were all trivial: - run 2to3 - spend 2h max fixing any failing tests - cook of any remaining issues in a few days of beta testing like you'd do for any new release Now now doubt Python 2.7 is a excellent and solid release and will remain so for as long anyone keeps the bitrot in check, but to keep using it because porting is 'hard' is pa…

Post by JshWright » Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 1:58 AM UTC

ageofwant wrote: post #171

recursivecaveat wrote: post #81

The simple reason is that there was no compelling feature to reward you for upgrading. You'd spend a tremendous amount of effort for dubious return and (until recently) a smaller ecosystem. 1. Unicode support was actually an anti-feature for most existing code. If you're writing a simple script you prefer 'garbage-in, garbage-out' unicode rather than scattering casts everywhere to watch it randomly explode when an in…

Again with the 'Tremendous amount of effort' meme. I've done many ports and they were all trivial: - run 2to3 - spend 2h max fixing any failing tests - cook of any remaining issues in a few days of beta testing like you'd do for any new release Now now doubt Python 2.7 is a excellent and solid release and will remain so for as long anyone keeps the bitrot in check, but to keep using it because porting is 'hard' is pa…

Post by meowface » Fri, Nov 15, 2019, 2:06 AM UTC

coleifer wrote: post #217

recursivecaveat wrote: post #81

The simple reason is that there was no compelling feature to reward you for upgrading. You'd spend a tremendous amount of effort for dubious return and (until recently) a smaller ecosystem. 1. Unicode support was actually an anti-feature for most existing code. If you're writing a simple script you prefer 'garbage-in, garbage-out' unicode rather than scattering casts everywhere to watch it randomly explode when an in…

Solid take. I'd add that performance was worse for a number of releases, and there were significant warts and incompatibilities in versions before 3.4. Personally, asyncio and type annotations are a big turnoff. I know this is a bit contrarian, but I've always favored the greenlet/gevent approach to doing cooperative multi-tasking. Asyncio (neé twisted) had a large number of detractors, but now that the red/blue appr…